Comments on: Lost: Down the Hatch – The unbearable lightness of Ben http://www.hobotrashcan.com/2009/04/03/lost-down-the-hatch-the-unbearable-lightness-of-ben/ One man's trash is another man's pop culture. Wed, 08 Feb 2012 20:41:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: Zeets http://www.hobotrashcan.com/2009/04/03/lost-down-the-hatch-the-unbearable-lightness-of-ben/comment-page-1/#comment-25163 Zeets Sat, 04 Apr 2009 20:23:22 +0000 http://www.hobotrashcan.com/?p=493#comment-25163 Absolutely, <b>Joel Murphy</b>, I completely agree with you. I liked Miles and Hurley's discussion (very meta, it was referring to what much of the audience had been discussing this entire time), but I wanted to throw my shoe at the screen when Miles was stumped about Ben not remembering Sayid. Of COURSE they can say that Ben LIED,and pretended he didn't know who Sayid was. That is so in alignment with his character that I'm utterly flummoxed this wasn't explored. And it makes me sad, because I was really looking forward to seeing the older Ben acknowledge that he'd known those O6 who had been in Dharmaville, and he had pretended not to know them. So, that little bit in the end that he wouldn't remember anything that happened really bummed me out. I'm still holding out hope that it means he <i>only</i> doesn't remember Sawyer/Kate bringing him to the temple, but remembers actually getting shot, remembers Sayid, remembers Juliet, etc - this is still a possibility, but may be too much to ask. <b>Chris</b>, bravo on your smokey analysis. That really got me thinking as well about how one gets initiated as an other, and what it means for Ben's future(past). I now agree that Smokey does it's 'nik-nikadoo' magic on whomever goes into the temple (or whomever it decides to drag into the temple), and this process transforms the person into an Other,one who will do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING it must to keep the island safe. This made me think....Those are the Rules!! The rules that Ben and Whidmore spoke of - just that they became Others, who had to do what they could to save the island. And Ben was telling Widmore he broke the rules by killing Alex, because....well....it didn't jive with what he believed you should do to protect the island. I don't think the rules have to do with time travel anymore, it has to do with Smokey. So, how did Ben break the rules? By turning the wheel to get off the island, or by returning to the island (as he states in the preview that ran on ABC for next weeks' episode)- and WHY does Ben want to be judged by Smokey? To prove to John that he did what he did only to save the island, or to prove to himself....maybe Ben had the same issue that Jack had....he couldn't function well away from the island, he had to go back and be judged (and possibly to get smacked against a tree by Smokey a'la Echo) to either die or be reinstated as an Other. Hmm....lots to think about for next week's episode. Thanks for the inspiration! z Absolutely, Joel Murphy, I completely agree with you. I liked Miles and Hurley’s discussion (very meta, it was referring to what much of the audience had been discussing this entire time), but I wanted to throw my shoe at the screen when Miles was stumped about Ben not remembering Sayid. Of COURSE they can say that Ben LIED,and pretended he didn’t know who Sayid was. That is so in alignment with his character that I’m utterly flummoxed this wasn’t explored. And it makes me sad, because I was really looking forward to seeing the older Ben acknowledge that he’d known those O6 who had been in Dharmaville, and he had pretended not to know them. So, that little bit in the end that he wouldn’t remember anything that happened really bummed me out. I’m still holding out hope that it means he only doesn’t remember Sawyer/Kate bringing him to the temple, but remembers actually getting shot, remembers Sayid, remembers Juliet, etc – this is still a possibility, but may be too much to ask.

Chris, bravo on your smokey analysis. That really got me thinking as well about how one gets initiated as an other, and what it means for Ben’s future(past). I now agree that Smokey does it’s ‘nik-nikadoo’ magic on whomever goes into the temple (or whomever it decides to drag into the temple), and this process transforms the person into an Other,one who will do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING it must to keep the island safe.

This made me think….Those are the Rules!! The rules that Ben and Whidmore spoke of – just that they became Others, who had to do what they could to save the island. And Ben was telling Widmore he broke the rules by killing Alex, because….well….it didn’t jive with what he believed you should do to protect the island. I don’t think the rules have to do with time travel anymore, it has to do with Smokey.

So, how did Ben break the rules? By turning the wheel to get off the island, or by returning to the island (as he states in the preview that ran on ABC for next weeks’ episode)- and WHY does Ben want to be judged by Smokey? To prove to John that he did what he did only to save the island, or to prove to himself….maybe Ben had the same issue that Jack had….he couldn’t function well away from the island, he had to go back and be judged (and possibly to get smacked against a tree by Smokey a’la Echo) to either die or be reinstated as an Other. Hmm….lots to think about for next week’s episode.

Thanks for the inspiration!

z

]]> By: Joel Murphy http://www.hobotrashcan.com/2009/04/03/lost-down-the-hatch-the-unbearable-lightness-of-ben/comment-page-1/#comment-25043 Joel Murphy Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:12:47 +0000 http://www.hobotrashcan.com/?p=493#comment-25043 Chris and Keeping Awake - Thanks for clearing that up. I thought the Ben amnesia thing was definitely convenient. It seemed to me that when Hurley asked Miles why Ben wouldn't remember getting shot and Miles had no answer that that was a conversation taken directly from the writers' room. Sadly, amnesia was the best they could come up with. I don't understand why they couldn't have just said the Ben remembered getting shot, but hadn't mentioned it to anyone. Ben withholds information all the time - so he could have easily remembered it and just never told anyone. It could have been why he knew Sayid would make a great killer and why he recruited him. As it stand, it makes no sense. Sure, Richard can say that Ben won't remember anything, but once he gets back to Dharma-ville, don't you think it will get mentioned to him? Wouldn't his dad or someone else say, "Oh my god, you're alive? I was so worried about you. You lost so much blood when you <i>got shot</i>." I have a hard time believing that no one will bring it up to him ever again and we still have a few years to go before Ben kills off all of Dharma-ville. Chris and Keeping Awake – Thanks for clearing that up.

I thought the Ben amnesia thing was definitely convenient. It seemed to me that when Hurley asked Miles why Ben wouldn’t remember getting shot and Miles had no answer that that was a conversation taken directly from the writers’ room. Sadly, amnesia was the best they could come up with.

I don’t understand why they couldn’t have just said the Ben remembered getting shot, but hadn’t mentioned it to anyone. Ben withholds information all the time – so he could have easily remembered it and just never told anyone. It could have been why he knew Sayid would make a great killer and why he recruited him.

As it stand, it makes no sense. Sure, Richard can say that Ben won’t remember anything, but once he gets back to Dharma-ville, don’t you think it will get mentioned to him? Wouldn’t his dad or someone else say, “Oh my god, you’re alive? I was so worried about you. You lost so much blood when you got shot.” I have a hard time believing that no one will bring it up to him ever again and we still have a few years to go before Ben kills off all of Dharma-ville.

]]> By: Chris Kirkman http://www.hobotrashcan.com/2009/04/03/lost-down-the-hatch-the-unbearable-lightness-of-ben/comment-page-1/#comment-25042 Chris Kirkman Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:04:04 +0000 http://www.hobotrashcan.com/?p=493#comment-25042 Thanks, Linds... I'm glad you appreciate the miracle. For 17 weeks, I'm willing to give up one night of sleep for this show. ;) I, too, found it rather convenient that Ben would just forget everything. It's almost like they wrote themselves into a corner and somebody spoke up at the next meeting and went "We can't have evil twins... hey, what about amnesia? It works on General Hospital." Thanks, Linds… I’m glad you appreciate the miracle. For 17 weeks, I’m willing to give up one night of sleep for this show. ;)

I, too, found it rather convenient that Ben would just forget everything. It’s almost like they wrote themselves into a corner and somebody spoke up at the next meeting and went “We can’t have evil twins… hey, what about amnesia? It works on General Hospital.”

]]> By: Linds http://www.hobotrashcan.com/2009/04/03/lost-down-the-hatch-the-unbearable-lightness-of-ben/comment-page-1/#comment-25037 Linds Fri, 03 Apr 2009 17:12:57 +0000 http://www.hobotrashcan.com/?p=493#comment-25037 Just wanted to say thanks for another great post and that I think it is a small miracle you get it done so quickly! Even if us readers are a bit inpatient at times :-). And how convenient Ben will just forget. Figures! Just wanted to say thanks for another great post and that I think it is a small miracle you get it done so quickly! Even if us readers are a bit inpatient at times :-) . And how convenient Ben will just forget. Figures!

]]> By: Chris Kirkman http://www.hobotrashcan.com/2009/04/03/lost-down-the-hatch-the-unbearable-lightness-of-ben/comment-page-1/#comment-25034 Chris Kirkman Fri, 03 Apr 2009 16:31:01 +0000 http://www.hobotrashcan.com/?p=493#comment-25034 Joel and KeepingAwake - Kate was present at the time that Boone was brought in to be treated from the fall. In fact, Jack asked for her help in getting alcohol to sterilize things. However, Claire was about to deliver at the same time, so Kate had to step in as midwife. After Kate left, Jack realized that he needed blood, but he didn't have any idea yet how he could get it - he had no needles and was trying to improvise one with a piece of bamboo. Sun asked Boone what his blood type was and he told her before he passed out - that's when the request for blood types went out. So, KeepingAwake, you were correct that Kate wasn't around just then, but was instead with Claire. As for why Kate didn't think to mention that she was a universal donor in the first place, I imagine that she was pretty much in shock from everything that was happening, Jack didn't have a needle to do a transfusion, and everything just got so crazy that she didn't have time to think about it. So... I'm willing to cut Kate some slack on this one. Of course, that was back when I actually liked her..... heh. Joel and KeepingAwake – Kate was present at the time that Boone was brought in to be treated from the fall. In fact, Jack asked for her help in getting alcohol to sterilize things. However, Claire was about to deliver at the same time, so Kate had to step in as midwife. After Kate left, Jack realized that he needed blood, but he didn’t have any idea yet how he could get it – he had no needles and was trying to improvise one with a piece of bamboo. Sun asked Boone what his blood type was and he told her before he passed out – that’s when the request for blood types went out. So, KeepingAwake, you were correct that Kate wasn’t around just then, but was instead with Claire. As for why Kate didn’t think to mention that she was a universal donor in the first place, I imagine that she was pretty much in shock from everything that was happening, Jack didn’t have a needle to do a transfusion, and everything just got so crazy that she didn’t have time to think about it. So… I’m willing to cut Kate some slack on this one. Of course, that was back when I actually liked her….. heh.

]]> By: KeepingAwake http://www.hobotrashcan.com/2009/04/03/lost-down-the-hatch-the-unbearable-lightness-of-ben/comment-page-1/#comment-25033 KeepingAwake Fri, 03 Apr 2009 16:15:23 +0000 http://www.hobotrashcan.com/?p=493#comment-25033 Joel, I think Kate didn't donate to Boone because she was in the woods with Claire. Whoever it was that was checking blood types (Charlie? I think?) went round the caves and the beach. So he wouldn't have found Kate to ask her. Joel,

I think Kate didn’t donate to Boone because she was in the woods with Claire. Whoever it was that was checking blood types (Charlie? I think?) went round the caves and the beach. So he wouldn’t have found Kate to ask her.

]]> By: Joel Murphy http://www.hobotrashcan.com/2009/04/03/lost-down-the-hatch-the-unbearable-lightness-of-ben/comment-page-1/#comment-25029 Joel Murphy Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:38:28 +0000 http://www.hobotrashcan.com/?p=493#comment-25029 I'm too lazy to go back and rewatch the scene, but when Kate gave Ben blood it made me think back to season one when Boone was dying and Jack was looking for someone to donate blood. I remember he sent Hurley around to ask people their blood type and Hurley couldn't find anyone. Did the fact that Kate is a universal donor come up then? Are we to assume that Hurley didn't ask her because she was too busy taking care of Claire, who was about to have the baby? Or should we assume Kate hated Boone and lied to Hurley about her blood type so that he would die? Great recap again this week, even if the show keeps stealing your stuff. And it was nice to see a Kate episode that wasn't awful - especially one where her ability to get captured by The Others actually came in handy. I’m too lazy to go back and rewatch the scene, but when Kate gave Ben blood it made me think back to season one when Boone was dying and Jack was looking for someone to donate blood. I remember he sent Hurley around to ask people their blood type and Hurley couldn’t find anyone.

Did the fact that Kate is a universal donor come up then? Are we to assume that Hurley didn’t ask her because she was too busy taking care of Claire, who was about to have the baby? Or should we assume Kate hated Boone and lied to Hurley about her blood type so that he would die?

Great recap again this week, even if the show keeps stealing your stuff. And it was nice to see a Kate episode that wasn’t awful – especially one where her ability to get captured by The Others actually came in handy.

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