Photo by Ideal PR, LLC

From a soldier in Avon Barksdale’s army to concerned father who wants a better life for his son, we’ve seen several different sides of Roland “Wee-Bey” Brice. With season five underway, we caught up with Hassan Johnson, who plays Wee-Bey on The Wire, to talk about working on the critically-acclaimed show, his longtime friendship with castmate Method Man and Wee-Bey’s love of fish.

Where are you originally from and where do you call home now?

Basically, I’m from Staten Island, New York – born in Brooklyn, raised in Staten Island, and I call in between time zones my home because I’m always between New York and LA. That’s sort of what turned into my lifestyle for the last four years.

How did you get into acting? How old were you when you started and how did you decide this is what you wanted to do for a living?

I’ve always been interested in being on television, is what I told myself. Whether it was journalism being a news reporter or whether it was an actor, anything that could get me on TV, that’s what I wanted to do was be on television. Never really asked myself what I wanted to do on television and the acting came along when I was in high school and a friend of mine’s girlfriend basically called my bluff and challenged me to go to an open audition, which was Clockers, a Spike Lee film.

You got a part in Clockers. So the first audition you went on, you got?

Yeah, I went to the open call, they liked me, they called me back for an audition – I had several callbacks thereafter, but basically from the open call to the end of the callbacks, I was in the movie, unbeknownst to me, but I had a feeling the whole time.

What was it like having your first role in a Spike Lee movie? Was it overwhelming for you?

Yeah, definitely. Being a high school student, at that time in my life I was playing football, I was really into the ball playing, that’s what I thought I would go to school to do. And when the acting came along, I took the opportunity, of course. It was my senior summer year and I was playing ball – I was supposed to be captain, but I didn’t make it to football camp. My relationship with my coach just kind of went up like whatever and I decided, “Yeah, I think this is what I’m going to do.” Didn’t pursue going to college, the ball playing, anything like that. I just got into acting full-fledged. So it was overwhelming at first just being on set with Spike Lee and all this other talent.

From there, have you had a tough time getting roles or has it been pretty easy for you?

It’s been tough and easy at the same time. When I first got my agent after doing Clockers, something my agent explained to me was, “Since you came up on such a high tier, a high level, it’s going to be hard to face rejection.” That was one jewel that anyone could have dropped on me because most kids do come into this business and if they come into a motion picture principal role right out the gate, it’s like everything’s supposed to be good and you’re a star overnight. I guess just knowing where I was from and just being practical and realistic, she decided to just be down to earth and give me the real and not even let me run off and think it’s going to be this fantasy world where I’m going to be a Hollywood star in the next five years. So it has been a battle that I’ve been able to balance out with some good, so I appreciate everything, all the experience, for sure.

You played Mark in the film Belly. What was it like being a part of that film and working with DMX, Nas and Method Man?

That was also a hell of an experience. I was excited for that because that was another film at the time that when Hype Williams was casting for it, he had an open audition. I told myself I wasn’t going to go to the open audition again – I’ve done that once, I need to take another route to get cast in the film. I ended up getting an audition and that just worked out because Method Man, being from Staten Island, put the word in for me definitely. I think Meth said something to the effect of, “Hype, I can’t be in this movie unless you cast Hass, that’s my brother.” Just being from Staten Island, at the time Wu-Tang having the force that they did in the industry, he definitely stepped up and spoke on my behalf as far as that. I think between that and Hype looking at my audition tape, they decided, “Yeah, this cat is what we need just to balance it out right.”

That was the first film, I don’t know if anyone thinks about it, that really started rappers in the leading role. I mean, all rappers and artists carried the film. You got Method Man, DMX, Nas, T-Boz. That’s pretty much what spawned that. I don’t know if Hype gets his credit or not.

Photo by Ideal PR, LLC

It’s so beautifully shot, too.

Right, it’s a masterpiece cinematic-wise. It is crazy. It’s like a two hour video.

Were you and Method Man really close before you did the movie?

Yeah, definitely, coming from Staten Island, Park Hill was the neighborhood. Definitely grew up with one another. Him and an older cousin of mine were real close friends. So the rapping always been in their blood and it was just a matter of time before he became a star anyway. Even from being in the neighborhood, he was a pretty popular, charismatic dude, so it was just a matter of time before he got the spotlight and ran with it. So yeah, Meth, we go way back; 80s babies like since I can remember.

And now you and Method Man are both on the best show on television today, The Wire. How did you end up getting cast as Roland “Wee-Bey” Brice and how was your character described to you initially?

Actually, it was funny, I didn’t really know what I was getting myself into because Wee-Bey’s character, along with the rest of them – Avon Barksdale, Stringer Bell – was a real character based on this true story.

So, what happened was, I auditioned for D’Angelo Barksdale, that was Avon Barksdale’s nephew, played by Larry Gilliard, Jr. I think it was the second callback, because I went in for one audition before 9-11 and the callback was during the aftermath of 9-11, once you were able to go back into Manhattan, because they didn’t have access to the city from like Brooklyn, Staten Island, Queens, anything like that.

So once that let up and we were able to go into the city, I had a callback and I was still reading for D’Angelo. What happened was, Clark Johnson leaned over to David Simon, or it was the other way around, and said, “Oh, this is Wee-Bey.” And whoever, whatever, that was, I didn’t know at the time. I just was like, “Whatever.” I left the audition and my agent said, “Yeah, they want to book you for this pilot as Wee-Bey.” I hadn’t even seen a script probably until two or three days before we were filming.

It’s been interesting to see your character develop. In season one, we saw you on the streets. In season two, we got to see Wee-Bey’s life in prison. And in season four, we got to see your character as a father. When did you start to get an idea of what the character was like and where he was headed?

What happened was, Wee-Bey definitely being the significant part of the story that he was, I started to get into it around the wardrobe fitting when I actually did get the script. So I drove down to Baltimore, picked the script up and I started reading it back in Staten Island.

Then I started to embody the character more where I was able to look and understand his role, his position – okay, Wee-Bey’s a soldier, he’s very loyal to Avon and the organization and basically he’s going to carry out his assignments to the fullest. That’s who Wee-Bey was, the cleanup guy. No joke, no mistake about it, he’s getting the job done. So I started to catch a whiff of that real fast.

Then, just filming the pilot also helps you capture and embody the essence of the character. So everyone’s breaking ice now – Wood Harris, Idris Elba, Andre Royo – everyone’s starting to break the ice of their character during the pilot because that was filmed in November. Then we got picked up and we started filming the rest of the episodes for the first season in February of ’02. So, you know what I’m saying, we had a time to let it all sink in and figure out what kind of dynamics we were going to bring to the table now.

Did you know your character would end up in prison at the end of season one? Did David Simon give you any indication of your character’s story arc in advance or were you finding out week to week?

Yeah, week to week, we get the script, that’s definitely how I’d find out. But I wouldn’t say I was blind-sided. Some of what took place on the show with certain characters, people feel they were blind-sided by. But whatever, that’s what the show consisted of. We didn’t get the script for the next week’s episode in our hand until maybe the last day of filming the last episode.

So, when you wrapped on one episode, you went into your trailer and either there was a script waiting for you or there wasn’t. And, what happened was, you picked up the script and you found out if you was going to be offed or not because you would basically skim through. I knew everyone did the same thing – you go in your trailer, get your script, you run through it real fast to see what happens with your character and then you let out a big sigh of relief because you find out, “Okay, I’m going to be working again.” (Laughs.)

That’s really how it was, but I tell people the story all the time where we just really didn’t know what we were doing anyway, we didn’t know how good the show was going to be. We all came with our A game because there’s like 30 principal characters. So we all got speaking lines, so you had to be on point, but I don’t think we really knew what we were putting together until we actually sat down that first Sunday night and saw the premiere. Like, wow, “This is crazy. That’s us? We were doing this?” That’s how it was. Because we were just working like, “Okay, this is some Baltimore shit. What’s going on tonight? Who has to work tomorrow? Are we hanging out?” (Laughs.) That’s what was going on every day on the set. I think that set the tone for what you see now because there were no egos, nobody was trippin’, everyone got along, the chemistry was great.

Photo by Ideal PR, LLC

Did you know you would get to come back for season four as Namond’s father?

Yeah, I did. I didn’t know that, but David Simon always gives you some sort of heads up. If he really has some plans for the character, David will come talk to you at his own discretion, whether it’s a phone call or he pulls you to the side on the set. And he’ll drop a line on you and basically, he said to me, “I got some shit for Wee-Bey. He’s down, but he ain’t out.” And I just had to take his word for it.

And, I think it was after I did the premiere for season three, David told me then, “No, I got you.” Once they got picked up and the ball got rolling for season four and five – because remember, we took a season off and that’s when everybody thought we were done – so, I started getting those calls again and it was like, “Okay, Wee-Bey has his family; his son, his son’s mom, this is what it is now.” So I had to take a different approach – he’s locked up, has this guy learned anything? What type of mood is he in now? And that’s what you got to see in season four.

It was definitely a different side of the character from what we saw in season one, especially at the end of the season, when Wee-Bey lets Namond move in with Bunny Colvin so that his son can avoid the same fate he suffered. It was definitely a change from the soldier who never questioned anything Avon asked him to do in season one.

Right, at the drop of a hat, he’s putting in work with no regard almost. But I think the dynamic of Wee-Bey was that he was this hardened, callous guy that still had a heart because all I wanted Avon’s nephew to do was watch my fish and he sold me out. He thought he was going to die that day.

Wee-Bey’s love of fish is definitely an interesting aspect of the character, like in season two, when Wee-Bey is in prison and he’s upset because the guard smashes the little plastic fish tank he had in his cell.

(Laughs.) Right, yeah he smashed Wee-Bey’s fish. Oh, Wee-Bey’s loving his fish, you know? Come on, let him have his fish. Wee-Bey’s heart was broken behind that. It’s like, “I’m doing my time, I didn’t deserve that.”

Obviously, you can’t give much away, but will we be seeing much of Wee-Bey in season five?

I do make an appearance, I’ll say, and it’s definitely just to close a chapter in a long book of the story of The Wire. I definitely love every minute of it. I don’t regret anything. It has been a hell of an experience. I definitely thank Alexa Fogel for casting me, David Simon and Ed Burns for giving me the opportunity to be a part of that history because it’s definitely history in television genre and everyone will be satisfied, I think, with the outcome, for sure.

Will Wee-Bey be tied in to the storyline with Marlo visiting Avon in prison?

No, it’s something a little more isolated, I would say, where it’s just closure, that’s really all it is. It’s just the last chapter, we close the book and know our guys, really where they are. It is what it is, we’ve got to accept it. One of those type of situations.

Being a part of the show from the beginning, what was it like filming your final episode?

I don’t know, I think me, the type of personality I have, I was ready for it to happen actually. I didn’t think we’d actually get this far to begin with, much less myself. I was told anyway from the beginning that Wee-Bey was only going to be in about three or four episodes and that was it. I had like a slightly recurring role that ended up turning into a series regular for the most part – not technically, but for the most part, I was. And I was one, along with the rest of those characters, who set the tone of the show.

I was kind of ready to be done with it because I’m the type of guy that when I book any job, I’m thinking about the next gig anyway because I know all good things come to an end and I don’t really like to get hung up in the moment too long. I ride the wave as long as it needs to be rode, but I don’t really like to dwell too much. Some people have been sad about the outcome, whether they’ve been killed off the show or there’s been some other political issue. Some people have been sad, but I’ve learned to condition myself to not really let it get to me or takeover where my mind state is at. I love The Wire. I know it can and has the potential to stay on for another five seasons, but that’s just not practical. Somewhere you have to close this book.

You also have had a reoccurring role as Darnell Thibeaux on ER. How did that part come about and what has it been like working on that show?

That was great because of the history that ER holds. And also for a good friend of mine, Mekhi Phifer, being on the show for the past three or four seasons. So really, that’s how all of that became what it is and I got the role of Darnell Thibeaux, who’s Dr. Pratt’s longtime friend from the neighborhood. And basically, I think that was a different take on life also, playing that character. You know, street oriented, but here’s this single parent.

You never really got to understand Darnell and his wife’s situation or why he ended up with his son, but that’s supposed to justify the means to his ends because he has the alcohol problem. And if you’ve seen in some of the episodes where Darnell and Dr. Pratt kind of bump heads because here it is, I have this little boy that I need to take care of and be more responsible with and I’m a little irresponsible.

I’m trying my best, but I’m really feeling sorry for myself. So now I’m drinking, I forget to pick him up from the hospital at the end of his volunteer service and then there’s the time when I get into the accident and hit the junior high school kid that was in the van. So I think it’s a situation where we know these characters, there are a lot of good fathers out there, men by themselves who are trying their best, but there’s really no excuse because I’m feeling sorry for myself. And that landed my character in jail on there and he’s no so bitter about it.

Because we always used to seeing the bitter, angry guy in jail. Wee-Bey also, Wee-Bey’s not bitter. He’s not angry. That’s what we’ve got to come to realize. So it’s a different dynamic to your typical street thug role. I told Dr. Pratt in the last episode I was on last season, “You still my boy. I’d probably still be out there drinking if you didn’t make me turn myself in.” There’s nothing to be bitter about when you know you’re responsible.

Do you get recognized quite a bit out in public?

Yeah, I have to say so. And at the damnedest places and times too. It might be a little kid who knows me from an old music video or it might be an old white lady. I’m serious, it comes from all over the spectrum. People do recognize me for Wee-Bey and other things. But Wee-Bey, I have to definitely credit my stardom and fame to that. A lot of people definitely pay homage to Wee-Bey. Not even Hassan, it’s all about Wee-Bey. That’s a good feeling though.

What do you do to unwind? What kind of hobbies do you have?

Basically, I like to work out. I do a lot of callisthenics. And I’m just getting into a lot of reading now. So I’ll go to the park to work out, I like to do it outdoors and get a lot of fresh air and drink a lot of water. And then, I’m getting into a lot of reading. Staying current on what’s happening, politics, anything, doing my diligence on life and history and stuff like that. I’ve never really been a moviegoer, that type of person. I study film; I have to watch a film maybe two or three times before I know what it’s about because I study the actors and what they individually bring to the table. That’s how I really hone my skills at this point and study and practice.

It’s almost like you are a coach breaking down game film.

Exactly. I’m stopping, I’m rewinding, that’s exactly what I’m doing.

What would you be doing for a living if you never got into acting?

I think I would definitely be into photography, that’s something that I also like to do. I think I take pretty good photos. I really capture what I’m trying to take a picture of. So, I think I’d be into some sort of film background if it wasn’t the acting itself.

Photo by Ideal PR, LLC

Tell us something most people don’t know about you.

I’m pretty reserved. I’m not a shy person, I’m real social. But I’m funny in a way where I really don’t like to be around a lot of people. I like to be by myself, I like a lot of me time. And I think I read in an article where Patrick Dempsey said, and I felt just where he was coming from, “The older I’ve gotten, I’ve found myself wanting to be by myself.” I just like being by myself. Because there’s so many shady folks and I’m a real friendly guy and loveable guy, I love people and some people just really don’t deserve that good energy. They like to spew negative energy. I’m big on energy – the type of energy you put out, you get back.

So I try to dodge all of the nonsense and just stay clear. It’s cool to meet new people, you have to network and broaden your horizons. And I do that when I need to and I don’t shut out anyone and I’m not an antisocial person, but the older I’ve gotten, I’m 29 now, I definitely find myself wanting to be alone.

Interviewed by Joel Murphy, January 2008. The Wire airs Sunday nights on HBO. Hassan Johnson can be seen in upcoming basketball comedy Frankenhood with Charlie Murphy and DeRay Davis, as well as Thug Passion and A Talent for Trouble, which will be released on DVD later this year.

Similar Posts:

• One on One with Michael Kostroff
• One on One with Isiah Whitlock Jr.
• One on One with Lance Reddick
• One on One with Gbenga Akinnagbe
• One one One with Chad Coleman

Stringer Bell ruled the drug trade in West Baltimore, but when he tried to go legit, Senator Clay Davis showed him that politics aren’t that much different from the street. With the fifth and final season of The Wire underway, it seems like the slimy Senator Davis may finally get his comeuppance.

Playing the senator on the critically-acclaimed show is Isiah Whitlock Jr., who recently shot the “sheeeeeit” with us about the final season of The Wire, working with Dave Chappelle and Whitlock’s memorable catchphrase.

We know you are originally from Indiana, where do you call home now?

New York City. I’ve been in New York I’d say a little over 20 years now. Indiana’s where I grew up and everything, and that was great, but I spent a little time in Minnesota, spent a lot of time out in San Francisco – I used to be with a company out there called the American Conservatory Theater, where I studied and worked – then I came to New York.

You were the fifth of 10 children. What was it like growing up as a middle child in such a large family?

(Laughs.) It had its ups and down. It was a lot of fun though. You always have somebody to play with. There were some days it would be a little difficult, things would be a little sparse and stuff like that. But looking back, it wasn’t too bad. I think, when I look back, I’m a little more troubled now than when I was living at home because you don’t really know a lot of differences, but I had a great childhood as far as I’m concerned and felt growing up, especially in South Bend, Indiana – a fairly safe environment compared to some of the other places that I’ve visited.

How did you get into acting? How old were you when you started and how did you decide this is what you wanted to do for a living?

It’s one of those things I’ve always wanted to do. I was an athlete in college, but I got hurt quite a bit, so when I decided to do something else, I thought, ‘Well, this would be the perfect opportunity to become an actor’ or to at least find out if that’s something I wanted to do. There were some other things I had thought about maybe doing, like journalism and teaching and things like that, but once I got started in drama, I realized it was something that I really loved to do and was very, very fascinated with it. So that’s what I did.

How tough was it for you to break in to the business? Did you have a difficult time getting roles?

I don’t want to say it was easy because starting out, I really just didn’t know jack shit. Especially in Minnesota, that was really tough because I felt I was more like I was a fish out of water. But by the time I went to San Francisco to study at the American Conservatory
Theater, I was used to the competition and I think I pretty much held my own.

It’s never easy and it’s all relative and you never, ever get what you want. No matter who you are, you always want something better. But when I compare it to everything else, I think I do okay.

You appeared in a number of episodes of The Chappelle Show. How much fun was it being a part of that show?

It was a lot of fun. I loved working with Dave Chappelle and I think I loved working with him a lot only because he loved working with me so much, which kind of made me feel very good and at ease and loosened me up a little bit. But it was crazy, it was crazy stuff – all good.

At the time when we did those shows, at least the first season, you never know how people are going to respond, so I was a little overwhelmed by their support for that particular show and found out that there’s a lot of people out there who watch The Chappelle Show. But I found it very, very fascinating that people really got into it. I was very happy that they did and I wish it was still on.

Were you surprised when the show ended so abruptly?

Yeah, I was very surprised and very sad. I was sort of hoping that at some point things were going to work themselves out and the show would still be on, but I do know how those things go and I don’t know what happened – you hear all these different stories, but I thought it was a little unfortunate and a little premature to have it all come to an end. I was really just hoping they were going to be able to work things out, but they never did.

Of course, you play State Sen. (R.) Clayton ‘Clay’ Davis on the best show on television today, The Wire. What attracted you to the show and how was the character described to you initially?

Well, it was one of those things where I sort of started off really slow because I’ve been on all five years, but they didn’t start running my storyline until I think it was season three. The first two years, I had a scene here, a scene there, maybe show up at a few cocktail parties, things like that. But things didn’t really start off until season three when I had my dealings with Stringer Bell. But they kind of explained it to me as to the direction it was going to go and what they wanted and needed from me and I just kind of took it from there and ran with it.

They write those amazing scripts. Once you get that script and you start reading that dialogue, you’re like a kid at Christmas. It’s like you’ve got some great stuff to play and you just kind of roll with it.

Most of the characters on The Wire operate in shades of gray, but Clay Davis is perhaps one of the most villainous characters on the show. You don’t really see a good side of him.

(Laughs.) Well, I might beg to differ on that.

How do you see the character? Do you find ways to justify his actions?

I just see him as a man of the people. A lot of people say that he’s a bad character and he’s this villain, but when you play a character like that, you really have to believe that everything you’re doing is good. I sometimes look at it as, “Gee, I might be doing something that is not on the up and up,” but I kind of look at it as it’s all part of the game. And if the game is being played, I’m just a player in the game. So you kind of think, “I’m not really doing anything wrong, I’m just out here playing the game.” That’s the way I justify it for myself to help me get through it.

But, that being said, it has a tendency to kind of irk people a lot and piss them off because you’re so concentrated on playing the game and then he comes off as a bit of a shady character. But you’ve got guys on there who are killing people, so Clay Davis is not that bad. I haven’t hurt anyone; you know other than a few dollars here and there.

One of the great things about the Clay Davis character is that the other characters on The Wire like Mayor Carcetti know that he is conning them, but they still have no choice but to deal with him.

That’s the thing. It kind of goes back to what I was just saying earlier – they’re all part of that game also. It’s almost like you’re playing this game and everybody’s giving you a certain amount of chips to play with and you’re expecting everyone else to kind of play the
same game that you’re playing. And, it’s like, “Why are you getting upset because I take from you, you take from me, he takes from this other guy?” At the end it’s like, who won or who’s going to win? But I have to deal with everybody and everybody’s got to deal with me.

Clay Davis’ storyline has become a significant focus of the final season of the show. Can you give us any hint about what is in store for the senator?

(Laughs.) Well, I haven’t gotten indicted yet. From what I’ve seen so far, they want to get Clay Davis, but again, you see the way that it’s shaping up. The federal government wants to get me; the city government wants to get me and all of my other enemies here and there. I haven’t gotten indicted yet, but based on the last episode, it’s not looking too good. But that’s about all I can say.

Having been a part of the show since season one, what was it like when the final season wrapped and how do you feel now that the filming of the show is complete?

Well, it was kind of bittersweet. You reach a point where you know you’ve got to move on and do some other things and that’s okay, you kind of prepare yourself for that. I mean, you’re never, ever really prepared for it unless you just hate what you’re doing. But the show has been so great and the people on the show – from the actors to the people who put the show together, it was just such a joy working with them that I began to realize that I was in a very, very unique place and experience in my life that may or may not happen again.

I hope it does, but if it doesn’t, I was kind of relieved to know I was a part of it and that made me feel very, very good and that to me is the most important thing, that I can walk away from this show and say I was part of something really, really good and I had that opportunity that a lot of actors, no matter who they are, never get an opportunity to be on a show like that, that is so well received and respected. It may not be the most popular show on television, but that’s a story for a different day. But to just be a part of it made me feel really, really good.

Also, by the fact that you knew that it was going to be the final 10 episodes, that there would be no more, you had that sort of long 20-week period to come in contact with people and say goodbye and let them know that you really appreciated working with them. So it wasn’t like the show just came to an abrupt halt and then you wish you had told people how much you respected them and their work. I had a chance to do all of that. Some people, I may never, ever work with again, but I had a great time.

One thing you are known for is your trademark delivery of the word “shit.” Where does “sheeeeeit” come from?

It’s one of those things, I had an uncle who passed away, God bless his soul, but he used to do that a lot, my uncle Leon. It was the way he did it and it was when he did it that would always make you laugh. But he would sometimes end sentences and sometimes, you know, you’d
wake up and you’d say, “Hey, Uncle Leon, how did you sleep?”

He’s go, “Sheeeeeit, man, I hit that pillow and …”

Or, you’d say, “How is dinner?”

“Sheeeeeit, that food was good.”

So he would always sort of talk like that. And so, the first time I did it, I think was in Spike Lee’s film The 25th Hour. I did it there and I did it in She Hate Me. But then, when I got on to The Wire, I saw a couple of opportunities where I could do it, and I did. And they started writing it in, so I would pick my spots and lay one out there. But I think I might let it go with The Wire. I don’t know though, you might hear it every now and then though.

You know, I was in, I think, Grand Central Station and far away I heard someone say it and they’d be kind of smiling. I’m glad people enjoy it. There could be worse things, I guess. But I hear rappers trying to do it and I’ve heard other people in other projects try to do it, but everybody knows if you really want to do it right, you’re just going to have to bring the real guy in.

You are going to have to trademark it.

I thought about it, but then I thought, “Oh Jesus, what am I doing?”

Outside of people shouting at you from across Grand Central Station, what type of response have you gotten from fans? Do you get a lot of people approaching you in public?

I don’t get a ton of people, but the people who like the show really, really like the show. And I get stopped every now and then. I try to be as cordial as possible. But they just don’t like Clay Davis, but they don’t quite know what to do about him. It’s almost like they hate him so much that they love the character because they can’t quite figure out where he’s coming from half the time, which is good. I’m glad that they’re so irked by the character – who he is and what he does – because that’s exactly what should be going on.

Have you had any response from politicians?

Politicians, no. But I have run into a couple of people in Washington, which only makes me know that they’re watching. People from DC say that I remind them of someone. God help us, whoever that is. But it’s interesting because there’s certain people that I would study and there’s a few politicians who if you really look at some of the things they’ve done, they sort of sound a little bit like Clay Davis.

Is Clay Davis based on a particular person?

Not really. They told me that he’s not like a particular person. Now, that being said, if you want to take maybe four or five people that they based the character on, some not even politicians. But just that certain things would happen to certain people that you can put with Clay Davis to round out his character. And then you take all of the people that I’ve studied and I take a little bit here and a little bit there and then you end up with a character like that.

What do you do to unwind? What kind of hobbies do you have?

I always want to say like horseback riding, fly fishing, stuff like that. My shit’s always really lame, like sitting around watching baseball games. I love baseball. That’s a real good hobby that I have. And I collect wine, which is a really nice hobby because I get to drink it. And I tool around on saxophone every now and then, but that’s about it.

Are you good on the saxophone?

Nah. I can play like a certain note, like a G or a C in a long tone and I hope everybody else kind of joins in and picks up from there.

What would you be doing for a living if you never got into acting?

I always wanted to be like an announcer at baseball games or things like that. I wanted to be that before I wanted to be an actor. And some days I dream about doing that. That was always like a childhood dream of mine that I never let materialize.

Tell us something most people don’t know about you.

Man, you’ve got some tough questions. The stuff that people don’t know about me, there’s a reason why they don’t know it about me. (Laughs.) I’m a Notre Dame fan. I know that will piss a lot of people off.

Interviewed by Joel Murphy, January 2008. Starting on February 7, Isiah Whitlock Jr. can be seen on stage in Brett C. Leonard’s play Unconditional at the Public Theater’s LuEsther Hall in New York City. For ticket information, visit the LAByrinth Theater Company’s website. The fifth and final season of The Wire airs Sunday nights on HBO.

Similar Posts:

• One on One with Michael Kostroff
• One on One with Hassan Johnson
• One on One with Lance Reddick
• One on One with Gbenga Akinnagbe
• One one One with Chad Coleman

When HoboTrashcan launched in August of 2005, the first celebrity we interviewed was Michael K. Williams from The Wire. More than a year later, the interview continues to be one of the most popular on the site, which is no surprise given the fact that Omar Little is one of the best characters on television and Williams himself is such an engaging personality.

As season four of the critically-acclaimed HBO show comes to an end, we decided to check back in with Williams to talk about his current projects, the Baltimore nightlife and his idea of Omar’s storybook ending.

It’s been over a year since the last time we spoke – how have you been since the last time we caught up with you?

Can’t complain. It’s a roller coaster ride, you know how it is. I’m trying to ride the wave right now – work out future projects, get everything lined up.

How happy were you to hear that The Wire was picked up for a fifth season?

To me, it was a no-brainer. I don’t know what they went through all that paperwork and stress for. I felt it. They said it was based on what the critics were going to say. I was like, “Well, the critics have always given us rave reviews. If that’s what you base it on, you might as well go ahead and cut the check now.” But, I was very happy that it did work out.

Do you worry about what the critics say about the show?

Seeing that Hollywood has not recognized the show, at least the critics do. What the critics do say about us does matter because they’re our only voice. I’m very grateful that the critics love the show, it’s a good feeling.

That is one thing that’s really unique about the show – you are outside of Hollywood. The show films in Baltimore and it’s definitely not your typical Hollywood production. Do you think that makes a huge difference in the show overall?

I don’t know. That’s a tall question. But I do know that The Wire could not have been The Wire had it been shot anywhere else but Baltimore.

What is it like working on such a complex show? Is it ever difficult for you to keep track of all of the intersecting storylines and different characters when you are reading the scripts and filming scenes? Is it tough to visualize how all of these different storylines will end up connecting when you are just getting the scripts week to week?

The Wire is an ensemble. Everyone’s storyline is interwoven. I don’t worry about what anyone else is doing, but I’m very concerned with all of the storylines. I love all of them. For me, when I prepare for The Wire, I just tap into what’s mine. I see what I’m dealing with. Omar deals with life as it comes. He’s a calculated, strategic moving kind of person, but he lives day to day. You feel me?

In episode 40, we got to see a completely different side of Omar. At the beginning of the episode, Omar ventures to the store unarmed in a pair of silk pajamas and is incredibly disappointed to learn that the store is out of Honey Nut Cheerios. What was it like doing that opening sequence? Was it fun to get to branch out and do something new with the character?

You’ve seen those sides of Omar, it’s just in different lights. Omar’s always shown you his vulnerable side, that’s what makes him so volatile at times. Like I said, he lives moment by moment and at that moment, he felt like just walking to the store. I love the fact that they show him as a whole person. This is his world, its Omar’s world. Even in Omar’s crazy, dark warped and insane world, he still, like everybody else, wants to get up in the morning and go to the store and get a box of Honey Nut Cheerios and a pack of Newports.

It’s like a six degree of separation kind of thing, everybody’s connected. We all want the same things at the end of the day no matter what your occupation is. Omar goes and robs drug dealers, you are a teller at a bank, but everybody wants to get up in the morning and have a little breakfast and some coffee and read the paper, you dig?

It’s funny too because in the scene he’s standing outside smoking a cigarette and some drug dealers just drop their package next to him because he’s Omar. And he seems disappointed. It’s almost like he’s off that day and just doesn’t want to deal with it.

(Laughs.) That’s exactly what it is. “I’m off today. I know I could have gotten that. Now I’ve got to lug this home.”

This season has been a rough one for Omar. He was framed for an armed robbery and ended up in prison where half the inmates wanted to be the one to kill the legendary Omar. What do you think of the direction the character has taken and what was it like filming the prison scenes?

That prison scene was surreal. It was a whole other side of the game. I’ve never had to venture into those types of situations as Omar before. Just going down that road with him, it’s a scary place. Me, as Michael, you got to just close your eyes, you know what I mean? It’s really dark. There were people in that scene that were the real deal – the truth. I’m going to leave it at that. My people out there, they know what I’m talking about. There were a lot of dudes in there that were the truth and just that energy in the room, it was crazy.

I love that Omar going to jail humanized him. Those scenes made Omar realize that he could get it too. It showed what he’s made of. When them two dudes came in his cell before they let him know who they were, he put his hands up. He was ready to go out. At the end of the day, that’s why people love him and respect him. That’s what pulls people to the character.

At the end of episode 49, Omar robs Proposition Joe’s truck and ends up with a shipment of drugs meant for the co-op. We know you aren’t going to answer this, but we have to ask anyway – what is going to happen with Omar in the season finale?

(Laughs.) Yeah, you’re right, I can’t answer that. I’ll tell you this much, Omar’s going to have a lot of angry men out of that co-op. A lot of upset ganstas.

Obviously you don’t know what the writers have planned for Omar in season five, but where would you like to see the character go in the final season? How would you like Omar’s story to end?

I would like to see Omar maybe get out the game, go out on the outer islands on the Bahamas, snatch up Renaldo, build a house down there and never, ever look back.

We like that. It’s really nice actually. But somehow, we doubt that’s what the writers will go with.

(Laughs.) Yeah, I don’t think it’s gonna happen.

After spending so many years working on this show, what will it be like to see it come to an end? How much will you miss it once it’s gone and do you think you’ll ever be a part of another show as complex and well-done as The Wire?

No, to me The Wire is to television what Tupac Shakur is to music. They’re going to get it long after it’s gone.

An ESPN columnist recently wrote an article talking about how some pro athletes love The Wire and especially love the character Omar, even though they are uncomfortable with the idea of having a gay teammate. His belief is that a strong gay character like Omar could help athletes be more accepting of homosexuals in the locker room. Are you a sports fan and what are your thoughts on all of this?

I love sports. I’ve got a lot of athletes who are friends of mine – Antonio Freeman, Sam Cassell, Carmelo Anthony, Keion Carpenter. These are very good friends of mine, I’ve known them for a couple of years now because ironically all of them are from the city of Baltimore and since I’ve been down there the past four years going on five years, I’ve gained a rapport with all of them.

At the end of the day, the reality of the fact is Omar is not going to be remembered for who he slept with. If Omar did end up on an NBA team, they’re going to be cool with it because they already know this dude, he don’t rock like that. He doesn’t come in looking for that. He doesn’t go to gay bars. His mindset ain’t even there, I think everybody really realizes that Omar is not the kind of dude who’s going to be walking around and looking at your ass. Who he sleeps with is just that – who he sleeps with. What’s in the bedroom is in the bedroom and that’s just a small part of who and what he is.

In reality, since I’ve played this character, I’ve had a lot of gay men come to me and say thank you for breaking the stereotype. I felt honored. Who’d have thunk it? I recognized the fact that when I took Omar with the sexual content like that, I was taking a huge gamble. I don’t know what clicked in me or what triggered, but something just told me to embrace that about him. Something told me that if I even dare run from that or even dare flinch, I will fucking lose.

The response I’ve gotten from the character – I hoped at best it would help me get another gig. This character and this show and the part that I play in this beautiful American story has far surpassed any of my wildest dreams. I feel so honored to be a part of this puzzle. There’s no money that could ever make me feel as good after having that feeling. The people I’ve met, the other actors, the coworkers. I doubt in my lifetime I’ll ever get another feeling like that.

I feel honored to have been put in a position to bridge a segue in my community. I just feel grateful that I have something to do with what you talked about. It came up before in a conversation with a brother from the Ravens, we had a roundtable conversation at the Raven’s house out there in Owings Mills and that topic came up. They said that and it made me feel good.

What do you think you’ll miss most about the show once it’s over?

All my coworkers, just seeing them and knowing that no matter what, I’m going to see them for six months out in Baltimore. We run around that city getting in trouble. We’ve had a great time. I’ve had a great time working with all of them. Every year, you get a new shipment, a new breed of actors that come to the show for the new storyline and there’s a bunch of us that have been around for a while and we get introduced to our new family. I’m just so blessed to be a part of that process.

From everybody from Chris Bauer to Pablo Schreiber and all of them in season two, season one with Wood Harris and Idris Elba and Larry Gilliard Jr., Michael Jordan Jr. All of these characters are gone now. In a sense, it’s kind of sad because I know where this road leads you to, but at the same time, I’ve built relationships with these people. When characters get killed off, it’s like, “That’s one I’m not going to see next year.” It really hit me this year. We lose another character this year; you’ll see it in the finale.

Every year, I feel a little saddened when we wrap. Although we say, “Oh God, it’s killing me. I can’t wait for this shit to be over. I want to go home.” When that shit is over, we’re like, “Oh my God, I’m going to miss you.”

You mentioned you all like to go out in Baltimore and get into trouble. Any stories you want to share?

Man, I could be here all night. We really did the city of Baltimore. I’m going to leave it at that. Andre Royo, Sonja Sohn, Seth Gilliam, those are my brothers, yo. In case y’all didn’t know, we’re the brat pack. Me and my brothers at The Wire, we are definitely the new brat pack. Dominic West, Domenick Lombardozzi, I’m going to miss all of them.

We have to admit, we were surprised to see you pop up in R Kelly’s “Trapped in a Closet” video. How did you get involved in that project and what was it like working on such a unique endeavor?

I got hooked up with that through Shelby Stone. She was one of the producers on Lackawanna Blues and was working on that project at the time. I don’t know if everybody knows this, but in the original 1-5 that he first released, the cop was a different guy. When he went to go back filming 6-12, the gentleman who did the cop was doing a Broadway show down in Chicago and couldn’t get out of his obligations. That’s when Shelby was like, “I’ve got a friend. He might could do it.” Then, she was like, “Mike, get your ass down to Chicago now.”

I went down there. Me and Robert, we hit it off instantly. That’s a good brother right there. We had a ball. We had a lot of fun shooting that. Just as stupid as it looks, when I say stupid, I mean that in a funny way, that’s how much we acted up off camera making that damn thing. We’d have to call cut just from laughter. I’m hearing rumors that we’re supposed to go back and do some more chapters. I think he’s going to 18 or something like that.

Last time we talked, you mentioned that you got your start as a dancer. Do you think you’ll do more music videos down the line or are you done with that at this point in your career?

Oh hell yeah, you’re going to see a music video coming from me real soon. But I ain’t gonna be dancing no more. I’ll be rhyming.

You have your own music coming out?

I got permission from HBO to put Omar on wax. Look out for that real soon. I’ve got a whole team working for me. Basically, it all started when Jam Master Jay, his business partner, whose is a good friend of mine and I got in a three-way phone call back around the first season of The Wire.

They said, “We’ve got this concept. We’re going to put Omar on wax. We think it will be crazy.”

I was like, “Oh shit, that does sound kind of interesting.”

In the process of us working on that, he got taken from us. But we fell back with it for a minute and started picking it up a little bit and I started getting all this response from the hip hop world. There’s a connection here that I don’t see with other actors with the hip hop community. I know the hip hop community has love for all our brothers that be doing it, but I was feeling this surge. We started getting back in it and going hard at it and I caught the attention of Jimmy Henchman over there at Czar Entertainment and I’m in the studio.

I’m not signed yet, but I’m on some mixed tapes right now and we’re definitely in the recording process. We’ll see what happens, but I’m having fun right now recording it. Its interesting going into character in the mic booth as apposed to being on set. I use a lot of the same tools to get into character. When they hear the music, people get the same chill as when they see him on screen and that’s what I want to do.

You’re involved in a movie called I Think I Love My Wife, directed by Chris Rock. Tell us a little bit about the movie and your role as Teddy. Also, what’s it like working with someone as funny as Chris Rock?

Chris is one of the people I respect. Coming from Brooklyn, like myself, where he’s taken his career and himself is very inspiring for me. It was an honor to be in his presence, actually. He’s a hard working brother. I had a great time working with him. He knows what he wants as a director. He wrote and directed and produced this and he wears all three hats extremely well.

He had the lovely Kerry Washington there, we had a great scene. It was really just one scene where he and his wife were on the outs and Kerry Washington plays his little hottie girlfriend and her character left my character, but she was saying, “Let’s sneak back to the house. Let me pick up some more of my things and move out and I’ll get the rest of my stuff later.” She comes into my character’s house with her new boyfriend, Chris’ character. While she’s getting her stuff, my character comes in and it’s a huge fight and Chris and my characters get into an altercation, we start fighting. While my character is like stomping on him, literally, police come in and it’s just crazy. It’s extremely funny, but it’s crazy funny.

He’s cool to work with. I’d really like to work with him again; I’d actually like to really work with him. Possibly play brothers or some crazy shit. I don’t know.

If working on a Chris Rock movie isn’t random enough, you’re also in Gone, Baby, Gone, which is directed by Ben Affleck. Can you tell us a little bit about that movie?

Ben was a whole other type of entity to work with. It’s a serious piece. A dramatic piece. He is really hands on. I love how he will come and work with you. You’ll have a scene down, ready to come in and lay your scene down and right there, he’ll just change it all up. He likes to keep a certain freshness. It just works, but you’ve got to stay with him. I think he has a big future as a director. He’s excelled at everything else, why not directing, right?

Where would you like to see your career headed? What sort of films would you like to do in the future and what actors or directors would you like to work with?

I’m on a five-year plan. I’m ready to pull back a little bit. I’m going to turn the lights on y’all now, turn the cameras around. I’ve got a production company, Freedome Productions, and I’ve got a bunch of things in development right now. I want to create some opportunities for some young, up and coming talent I’ve got my eye on. One being Felicia Pearson, who plays Snoop on The Wire. I’ve got a big hand in her career. I want to stay hands on with her. There’s another young brother from East Flatbush, Brooklyn, by the name of Fly Williams, he’s been in a bunch of stuff, his first film was Finding Forrester with Sean Connery and he was in Freedomland with Samuel Jackson. He’s like my little nephew from my hood. I’ve got a lot of little up and coming youth that I want to help develop some projects for them. Let the young kids do it, I’m getting old.

What actors out there today impress you? Who would you pay money to see in the theater?

I pay money to see Denzel, he still gets my dollar. Sam, I love Sam. I’ll still go to see a Sam movie. Those two right now, I definitely go out and catch their movies.

What would you be doing for a living if you never got into acting?

I don’t know. It’s even bigger than acting. I don’t know what I’d be doing if it wasn’t for the business of entertainment. But, we ain’t going to focus on that.

Interviewed by Joel Murphy, December 2006. The season four finale of The Wire airs Sunday on HBO and the fifth and final season begins filming next spring. For more information on Michael K. Williams, visit his official website. To read our original interview with him, click here.

Similar Posts:

• One on One with Michael K. Williams
• Murphy’s Law – That boy was beautiful
• One on One with Michael Kostroff
• One on One with Delaney Williams
• One on One with Gbenga Akinnagbe

While the storylines may keep Sgt. Jay Landsman in the background, his surly demeanor and affection for porno magazines help him to steal most of the scenes he is in. Although entertaining, Delaney Williams, who plays Landsman on HBO’s critically-acclaimed drama The Wire, wants you to know that he is quite different from the character you see on your television screen. To help you learn more about the man behind the magazine, he recently sat down and talked with us about himself, his character and the real Jay Landsman.

Where are you originally from and where do you call home now?

I’m originally from the Washington, DC area and I split my time now between New York and the DC-Baltimore area.

How did you get into acting? How old were you when you started and what made you decide this is what you wanted to do for a living?

It’s one of the things my father did when I was about 12 or 13. My father did a little community theatre, I went with him just to find out what he was doing. I ended up auditioning for a small role – he ended up not getting a role in the show, but I ended up getting a role. I was hooked from there, I guess.

I did some things in high school and, of course, went to college for it for a couple of years. Then, while I held a day job for many years, I did a lot of stage work. I did mostly stage work for 20 years. Film and television started taking off for me in the last 10 years or so and has been the bulk of my work. But, I have been doing a show or two on stage a year.

What was it like starting out for you? Did you find it really tough to get roles or were you pretty lucky?

I worked fairly steadily on stage. It’s difficult for any actor. It’s not a career you would choose because the opportunities are enormous. If you are looking to make a lot of money and secure a future, you are probably not going to make this choice. You are going to make this choice because you love to do it.

Was there ever a point where you thought, “I don’t want to do this?” or “Maybe I should do something else?”

Every day. Because you live through the struggles of trying to find a job everyday. I don’t know if you’ve had the experience of looking for work and being rejected, but that comes with the territory. The hardest part is getting the job and you’re always doing that. But, for the last 10 years or so, it’s been fairly good, especially because of television and film.

You have a lot of experience working on David Simon projects. You appeared in an episode of Homicide and The Corner before being cast as Sgt. Jay Landsman on The Wire. What were those experiences like for you and did they lead the way for you getting cast on The Wire?

The Homicide job was just something that being in the DC-Baltimore area a lot of actors worked on the show. I don’t believe I worked on a show that David wasn’t involved with. Obviously, he wrote the book that the show was based on.

But The Corner and The Wire were connected. I was one of the people that was called in to read for a small role on The Corner and it turned out well enough that they wrote another scene in another episode of The Corner for the character. So I think they were pleased with my work on the show. And, of course, the miniseries did very well for HBO, so HBO picked up David’s idea for The Wire.

They called me in specifically to read for that role. Bob Colesberry and David Simon remembered me from The Corner and brought me back in. It’s actually kind of a funny story. I really tanked the audition, but I think afterwards I really begged and pleaded to do it again. By begging and pleading, I think they got what they wanted out of me. The audition process was an odd one, but it worked out well. The show is a great show and I’m glad to be on it.

How was the Jay Landsman character described to you initially? What kind of direction did they give you?

Absolutely none. There was no direction. It’s partially there in the writing and I knew that a Jay Landsman existed. I hadn’t met him until the end of the first season, actually. It’s not really based on that person. But, there is a Jay Landsman and he worked for the Baltimore City Police Department and now he works in Baltimore County.

But, it was one of those things where I could see in the writing how I thought they wanted it to go, my audition took it there and then when we started working on the show, I didn’t know it was going to recur as much as it did, but I think they were pleased with what I brought to the character. It worked out that the choices I made were something they were interested in having for the character. Of course, they’ve written to that since then. I think that’s true for a lot of the character traits you’ll see in Landsman’s scenes throughout the four seasons.

Do you know why they decided to name the character after a real person?

I think it was a shout out, sort of an homage. It was a person that David had known when he followed the homicide unit for a year in Baltimore before writing the book Homicide: Life on the Street.

When you met the real Jay Landsman, what was his impression of the show and what was it like meeting him?

I think he liked the show a lot. It was kind of fun. We got a picture taken together and we’ve met several times since then. I think he enjoys the show a lot. It says a lot of the things he thought about working in the Baltimore City Police Department or any big city police department. He’s a much smaller man than I am, so I think that was sort of a joke played by David Simon on him. Of course, I don’t get the joke. (Laughs.)

One of your bigger moments on the show came during episode 28 in season three, when everyone gets together at Kavanagh’s Irish Pub to honor the late Ray Cole. Can you talk about filming that scene and also, is that something that really happens in the police force?

My understanding is that it’s a traditional thing. It may not happen exactly as depicted in the show. Our show is fiction, of course. But there are certain traditions that are carried on when someone passes away – just as in any tight-knit organization. It’s beyond my knowledge, but apparently there are some traditions that are carried through by the detectives and the police department that are just their own.

As far as that particular episode and that particular scene, I was very proud and honored to get a chance to do it. Ray Cole was played by Bob Colesberry, our executive producer. He was extraordinarily important to our show and a decent human being and I think he pulled our show together the first couple of years. The creative forces that David Simon brought to it were very important to it, but Bob was the guy that made it good television and good art. It was very sad when he passed. And it was absolutely my honor to honor him in that way. I’m glad we got the chance to do it. The scene kind of steps out of the show a little bit, just a little bit, but it ties back in to that part of the story. It was kind of an emotional and moving day. It took us many, many hours to shoot that. I think I recited the eulogy probably 50 or 60 times. It was a long, hard day, but well worth it.

And, of course, we just recently had an episode air where Col. Forester passes away and we had a similar wake for him. I had a smaller speech in the squadroom about him and that was also kind of a sad day for us because the actual actor, Richard DeSantis, passed away. That was the basis for doing that in the series. Richard was a really, really good guy and a good actor.

Do you think those episodes are cathartic for the cast to get to do?

I think a little bit. I know definitely for me they were. The cast is so broad and wide that it doesn’t affect everyone the same way, I guess, but certainly for me they were chances to say in public “Goodbye to our friend.”

Just to change gears a bit so this interview doesn’t get too terribly serious, how often would you guess Sgt. Landsman looks at nudie magazines while sitting at his desk?

(Laughs.) I kind of know when I receive a script that I’ll open it up and it will say “Enter your homicide unit daytime. Sgt. Landsman is looking at a nudie magazine and eating half a side of beef as he reams out one of the detectives.” That’s basically what I know will happen in every scene that he’s in. It’s kind of a running joke. But hopefully in the fifth and final season, we’ll see some of his more cerebral pursuits. Perhaps we’ll see him at a Mensa meeting or a chess tournament.

Are you a method actor? How many magazines did you purchase for “research” purposes to get a feel for your character?

(Laughs.) Yeah, I think if you ask David Simon, he’d say, “Well, we took all of this stuff from what Delaney does.” But, I’d say no, that’s all out of David Simon’s back pocket. I’m going to leave that all on him. He had personal knowledge and experience of all of that, obviously in depth, and that part of the character is actually written by the creator himself.

What is it like working on such a complex show? Obviously, as a recurring character, you don’t have to pay as much attention to what is going on with everyone else, but do you try to keep track of all of the different plotlines and intersecting stories?

The producers try to keep a reign on the story so it doesn’t leak out. So, I wouldn’t get every script necessarily. The difficult part about that was that I’d have to know information that happened in those scripts for the character in the following episode. Without that information, I wouldn’t know what the character was talking about. So I ended up having to get all of the scripts and keeping up with all of the storylines. It was important just for the character’s sake. As an actor, I would feel like I would look silly because I wouldn’t know what I was talking about in the following episode.

The hard part about that is you don’t necessarily get to watch the show and enjoy it the way someone who is watching it for the first time does because you know what is going to happen. Toward the end of this last season, I actually didn’t get a chance to read all of the scripts. Basically, my character was doing the same information, so it wasn’t really necessary. Actually, the last couple of weeks when I get a chance to see the episodes, I’m seeing things for the very first time. And I can see what a really interesting and brilliant show it is to watch. It would be one of my favorite televisions shows … and it is one of my favorite television shows.

Because you’re originally from Washington, DC, what is it like filming The Wire so close to where you grew up? Does it mean more to you working so close to home?

It should have a universal appeal. There is some draw to the fact that no television shows are shot anywhere other than Los Angeles and New York, at least major network television shows. So there’s a different feel to it altogether. It should appeal to the rest of the country more, I would think.

It means a lot to me to get to work here because I have a four year old and a seven year old. I have two young sons, and their time is split between me and my ex-wife, who lives here in DC. So it makes it much easier on me, personally. I can be in DC and I can be at work in a half an hour. It’s not a matter of commuting across the country, which I’ve had to do in the past and most actors have had to do.

How accurately do you feel the show portrays Baltimore?

It’s fairly accurate about the things it addresses. Each individual scene is mostly shot on location in the city. The stuff that’s shot on the soundstage is meticulously remade from places in the city. Vincent Peranio is in charge of the look of the show and he’s a longtime Baltimore artist who has done this for many years. He knows Baltimore inside and out. For instance, the scenes that are shot in the homicide office, where I mostly am, are shot on a soundstage. It’s based on where we actually shot the first season which was on the fifth or sixth floor of 100 Northwest Charles Street. The first season, you’ll see the exteriors of that scene will be the actual buildings outside of 100 North Charles Street. When we had to go inside to a soundstage for the following season, they recreated every last detail of the exterior and the interior.

What has the response been like from Baltimore police officers?

The response I’ve gotten has always been positive. Especially while the show is airing, I’ll walk down the street and get stopped left and right. People will say how they love the show and they love the character. It reaffirms that you don’t have to kowtow to the lowest common denominator. You can make a thinking man’s show about the problems of a city that resonate with people who live there who understand what you’re doing is creating a work of art and something to think about. You are not trying to denigrate the city, what you are trying to do is create a dialogue.

It’s not bubblegum television. It’s not for everyone. I assumed that going in and I’m sure the producers did as well. HBO has apparently been good about that as well. They know that it’s not breakout television, it’s not going to be this neatly wrapped up hour’s worth of crime drama where the drug dealers are all bad and stupid and the cops are all smart and virtuous. It’s more like real life than that.

We know you can’t give anything away, but what is in store for Jay Landsman for the end of season four?

Jay Landsman, the character, not being part of the main thrust of any of the stories, he doesn’t have necessarily a through line of his character. There isn’t really any attention paid to what happens to his character. He affects the other stories in certain ways. But definitely look out for the last episode. There’s some interesting stuff for Jay there. The final episode of the current season was a lot of fun to do in a different way altogether from anything you’ve seen from Jay Landsman so far.

What do you do to unwind? What kind of hobbies do you have?

I’ve got the same hobbies as everybody else – watch a little good television; go to the movies; go out with friends to dinner; play a little tennis, believe it or not, and a little bit of basketball. That’s about it. I like to read a lot and I’m a big fan of the theater.

What would you be doing for a living if you never got into acting?

I don’t know. My day job for 10 years was I managed a bank. I know it wouldn’t be that. I would kill myself if I was still doing that. Which is not to say it’s not an honorable profession, it just wasn’t for me. It made a living for me for a while, while I was doing a lot of stage work in the evening, I was able to use banker’s hours to my advantage. So that worked out really well.

To tell you the truth, I really don’t know. I think it would probably be something creative, maybe even behind the camera somewhere. Backstage, maybe directing. I would still be in the arts somewhere, I would guess.

Tell us something most people don’t know about you.

I’m not the person they see on television. I’m not that character. You are the person they see in terms of your physical form, but you are not the person they see in terms of what you do and how you react to situations. I get a lot of comments about what the character has done and the person I’m speaking with thinks that’s a good thing or a bad thing. Of course, I always have to let them know that it’s not really me that does that.

As a matter of fact, I actually had nothing obviously to do in the storyline with getting rid of Stringer Bell at the end of the third season, but that caused a huge uproar in the fans. I actually had a t-shirt made up that said “I had nothing to do with Stringer Bell.” I was getting so much grief about it.

We’ve got one last thing for you here. I’m going to do a word association. We’ll just throw out a name and tell us the first thing that comes to your mind.

Baltimore.

Charm city.

Jimmy McNulty.

Dom is great.

Dozerman’s gun.

Where is it? Where the fuck is it?

Sgt. Jay Landsman.

Smarter than you think.

Delaney Williams.

Not quite as smart as you might think.

The future.

Bright.

Interview by Joel Murphy, November 2006. The Wire airs Sunday nights on HBO.

Similar Posts:

• One on One with Lance Reddick
• One on One with Michael K. Williams
• One on One with Lance Reddick
• One on One with Michael K. Williams
• One on One with Michael Kostroff

It’s been an interesting road for Maj. Howard “Bunny” Colvin on HBO’s critically-acclaimed drama, The Wire. First, he legalized drugs in Western Baltimore in what became known as Hamsterdam. This season, he’s the man tasked with radically reforming the flawed Baltimore school system.

So it’s fitting that the man who plays Bunny, Robert Wisdom, lives life a bit off the beaten path – finding his way to Hollywood after stops in Jamacia, D.C., New York and London. Fortunately for us, he slowed down long enough to sit down and talk about life on the road less traveled.

Okay, there’s really only one way to start this interview off right where are you right now and which way is north?

(Laughs.) I’m looking west out my doorway. North is to my right and that’s the big Pacific Coast Highway.

Now that we got that out of our system, where are you originally from and where do you call home now?

I call this home here. I’ve been here about 12 years. I grew up in D.C., born in Jamaica, but I lived in Washington my whole life. Then lived in New York, lived in Kentucky for a year, moved to London, then found my way back out here and I’ve been here about 12 years. I call myself, if nothing else a “Santa Monican.”

How did you get into acting? How old were you when you started and how did you decide this is what you wanted to do for a living?

It was one of many things. My first acting course was my senior year in college and I took it as a gut course to fill out my last semester and had a good time, but didn’t think it was something I was ever going to do seriously. Then I went to work as a banker. From banking I went into radio at NPR and I worked on All Things Considered for a long time and from there I got into the avant-garde art world and started running a place called The Kitchen in New York. From there, I did a lot of artistic direction, putting festivals together in Spain and France and went to work in London at the Institute of Contemporary Arts and I figured that was what my life was going to be.

Then, I just had this epiphany. I mean, that was great work, I did some really great projects I traveled with gypsy families all over Europe and North Africa for a year and visited Cuba a whole bunch of times and worked with some great artists, but I had this nagging feeling that there was something I was supposed to do as an artist myself rather than facilitating other people’s work. I found my way into an acting workshop and I had been training as a closet actor for years, but more as a hobby. Then one day, I realized this is what I’ve got to do.

One of your first big movies was Face/Off with John Travolta and Nicholas Cage. How did you land the role of Tito Biondi and what was it like working on a John Woo film?

That was a prize. A great casting director out here, Mindy Marin, was the person that gave me my first gig and she was casting the John Woo movie and there was this part for Tito. She just put all her weight behind it, my agent got behind it and they paved the way for Paramount to say yes. Then I got to work with the great John Woo, I’ve got to put it like that. He’s one of the great action directors and that was his third American movie and there was a lot of buzz around it. Nick Cage and Travolta were in their little prime and just a lot of great bullets and a lot of great diving shots. I loved it. He directs action like ballet. He came up to me the first day and said, “You make character, I make action, we make movie.” That was his whole direction. So we went for it. We worked on that film for eight months and it was really a great project.

You also appeared in a very underrated show called Boomtown. And actually, you were in our favorite episode which was called “Execution.” Tell us a little bit about your experience playing Chronic, a.k.a. Daryl C. Norcott.

It was one of those shows where everything came together. The audition for that was the worst – well, I’ve done a lot of bad auditions, but this was one of the worst ones. I stopped in the middle of it – the script wasn’t finished, so they gave me some new pages and I just wasn’t feeling it. So Jon Avnet just stopped and said, “Let’s have a conversation.” We just started talking. I figured I blew it, so I left. Then, next thing I got a call saying they wanted to offer it. So, we show up and I got the new script under my belt and just went to work on it. We did a total immersion thing. We shot in a L.A. prison. I’m not really a method kind of person, but I totally had to get in the head of being locked up and your freedom taken away. Not only that, but being on death row. That really put a whole other spin on it.

Then, to live the life because we shot a lot of flashback scenes of Chronic’s life. It just brought me back to living on the streets of D.C. and the gangsters in my neighborhood, so I drew on some of them. It was really, really, really a great project because it moved me to another level in my work where I realized I was ready to carry a big character. I think it was pretty much that role that led to Bunny Colvin coming into the picture. Boomtown was definitely the first pillar of the whole thing.

In 2004, you played Jack Lauderdale in the award-winning movie Ray. How did that role come about? Also, how difficult is it when you, as an actor, portray a real person? Is that more of a challenge for you?

Not so much a challenge because I didn’t really know him and you’re just putting the facts of his life together. Ray was one of those movies that when the word got out, everybody wanted to be a part of that movie. I was determined to be a part of the film somehow. We fought to get in on it because there were a bunch of well-known actors at the time who were up for a bunch of those parts. I just pushed my way through. My manager is a bulldog and he got it going and my agent got it going. We got the audition. I knew when I went in that audition that this was mine. Jamie Foxx was in the room and I did my best to piss on every corner in that room because I wanted to leave my mark.

I got offered the part, so I looked up who Jack Lauderdale was and just morphed. They put us in the period clothes and I was just happy to be at the party. Jamie was amazing. The first day we were shooting, I went up to him on the stage when I first meet him and put that leg on the stage. All the sudden, it was almost like I was hit with this atmosphere. I thought I was looking at Ray. The cameras were rolling and it felt like, for a minute, I totally forgot I was doing a movie. I was just looking at Ray Charles. I ended up popping my head back and realized this was Jamie. He was that deep in it and that real. I knew at that moment this was going to be the deal.

Of course, from there you ended up being cast as Maj. Howard “Bunny” Colvin on the best show on television today, The Wire. What attracted you to the show and how was the character described to you initially?

I was a big fan of the show at the tail end of the first year and I’m one of those people who loved the second year. I thought the second year was this weird, baroque fucking opera with all the dockworkers and all the parallels with the projects. I would never imagine that on American television. And then, I was literally down in New Orleans shooting Ray. My agent got a call and said, “Bob, David Simon wants to offer you this role.” I had gone up for a part on The Corner a few years before and that was another “must want,” every actor wanted to be a part of it. I got one of the parts, as one of the junkies. I also, at the same time, got a role in this ensemble shoot making this movie Dancing at the Blue Iguana and that was interesting to me because we were going to improvise from scratch the whole movie, so we were going to work together seven months. Artistically, that was interesting. I didn’t make any money, but artistically it was a challenge. So I passed on The Corner, but David and Ed remembered me from that audition and when Bunny came up, I got the call. What that told me right there was never drop your guard. Always be ready because you just never know how it circulates.

They called me, but they didn’t say much. Bob Colesberry was alive then and he and Ed came in my trailer and said, “Bunny is a major in the Baltimore police force with 29 years. He’s just seen it all. There’s not much that gets him worked up anymore.” And that was it. As we were shooting, there was so little dialogue. This was episode 10 of season two. An actor goes in and you say, “Oh, I got a lot of words,” and you can really build around the words. There were no words in it. It was just showing up in a scene, standing in a background and having a look a look of just like: “What the fuck are we doing? Every time I show up at a crime scene, this kid got shot.” Everything we were doing was just empty. When I look back at that episode now, everything about Bunny was in that scene. They had him perfectly conceived from God knows when, from the beginning of the series. But it was just a sketch in season two.

Season three; I had no idea, because David doesn’t tell you anything that’s going to go on. Ed, every now and then, will give you a look and let you know there’s some weight coming behind it, but he won’t say much either. He’ll just give you a laugh and walk off or let you guess and if you’re warm, his eyes will light up. And then you realize, “Okay, I’m on to something here.” But none of them told me what Bunny was really going to be up to. So I learned of it as we got each episode handed to me and it was deeper and deeper. It was one of the most magnificent years that I’ve spent – second only to last year shooting season four – but that year shooting, with Bunny and Hamsterdam was one of the great experiences of my acting life. I’m really proud of the character I get to play.

In season three, Maj. Colvin is nearing retirement and decides to push drug dealers to three abandoned locations in Western Baltimore, which are dubbed “Hamsterdam.” In season four, Colvin works with the school system and convinces the administration to divide the students into two groups – the street kids and the regular students. Do you enjoy having your character used as a springboard for radical ideas and do you agree with Colvin’s tactics?

I have to say personally, my life has always been a bit of a maverick, so I do have that affinity with Bunny. It’s this irresistible call, he winds up trying to reform situations. It’s a very strange thing for him. He looks at a situation and he gets these almost intuitive bursts where he says, “If this happened and this happened, we could get something done.” All he wants to do is move the shit 10 inches down the way. He can do that by streamlining things. He wanted people in his neighborhood to have a normal life. He saw the drug pushers there – so what do we do? We’re not going to eliminate drugs, so you put them in one area. You can’t throw kids out of school, but you can separate the ones who seriously are decent kids and have a shot from the ones who just need social adjustment. It’s kind of this reformer’s eye.

He does it kicking and screaming. Especially in season four, he’s not happy that he has to do this again. He’s not going to take it on because Amsterdam kicked his ass and ruined his life. He was counting on that pension, he was counting on so many things and his life is radically changed. So it’s not something that he wants to take on, but he’s the only one there and he’s willing to do it. So there’s a weird, almost potentially tragic flaw in Bunny and I don’t know if it will ever come to that point of Shakespearean tragedy, but there’s a man who is trying to redeem his life in a way. And that’s what I kind of felt in season four. Season three with Hamsterdam, he pissed away his whole career, instead of just taking an easy way out or just doing it by the book and just playing along with the system when the system was broken. Nobody would speak up about it. He finally did or, he didn’t and just went ahead and did it and paid for it. But it’s made him stronger. I dig him. It’s a vision I have of my own life if I could change things.

We know you can’t give anything away.

I know, that’s the closest I’ve come to describing any of the storyline and that’s pretty vague.

Bunny returns in the third episode of this season. What can you tell us about where he is at when we are reintroduced to him?

Bunny has been trying to put his life together. He had that job offer from Hopkins to head up their security, which would have been a pretty penny. Putting that with a major’s pension, you would have walked away with over 100 grand a year – 125 grand, that’s big money for a former Baltimore cop. He got bumped down to a lieutenant’s and you see him working security, but not on the level he was planning. But he’s taking orders from dipshits – running into people who don’t know their ass from their elbow, who are “yes men” and the one thing he doesn’t like are “yes men.” He’s sees his world is covered in them. That’s where we meet him. He’s at another crossroads. Very quickly, he’ll keep coming to these crossroads. But this one – I can’t get into too much, but when we meet him in three, he has no idea how his life is about to change. I think that’s all I can say.

Your character’s experiences closely mirror those of writer/producer Ed Burns. Has he given you any guidance or advice in accurately portraying the role?

Ed is always there. I love that guy. I’ve got so much respect for him. He’s one of those leaders who leads with his actions and with his eyes. If you put a wrong step, he’ll let you find your way back. We have conversations, but we have conversations about books and ideas and political situations and we get a lot of stuff out. In the midst of that, I’ll have my own little epiphany. We’ll have a moment where both of our eyes will just shine and I’ll just walk back on set. I’ll come off set after doing a scene and the first person I’ll look to is Ed and without saying a word, he just gives a nod that it’s on track. That’s all we do.

Whoever the director is that week, they might want to do it again, but Ed will tell me pretty much if the compass is locked in. Sometimes I’ve got to try to push things or whatever and he knows that I’ve got to do that and he doesn’t lay his experience on you because he knows all of us are going out to do our research – I went to schools and talked to a lot of teachers, went around Baltimore and talked to administrators so when I came in, I had raw material and then in the course of our conversations and interaction with the kids, it would just get refined over the year. By the time we reached the last episode, it’s in this real sublime place, which is what the show does so brilliantly. It takes all of these storylines and just distills them down into one essence, which turns into a major montage.

What is it like working on such a complex show? Is it ever difficult for you to keep track of all of the intersecting storylines and different characters when you are reading the scripts and filming scenes? Is it tough to visualize how all of these different storylines will end up connecting when you are just getting the scripts week to week?

The funny thing about The Wire, we get the scripts on a Thursday and you read it like a novel. It’s just like another chapter in this big novel that you are reading. And then you go back and you look at your storyline. And you really kind of have to blank out everything else. You go through and track when other people might mention you or what else is happening if it has some impact on what you’re doing, but it’s best to just kind of get into your own bloodstream, your own vein, and stay there and maintain the integrity of that.

The less you know about the other worlds, the stronger your world becomes. It’s an odd kind of thing, but I think you know what I’m saying. You just have to keep that focus. And then, when they cut it together, you have all of these incredibly powerful storylines that are being acted and they fit together well. If you do it with the mind that I’m going to do this because so-and-so is doing that, it’s going to blur the lines. So really, you just keep a dead focus on your storyline. I go see other people’s work, like if Andre Royo is doing a big scene or Domenick Lombardozzi or one of those guys, I love watching them work, but you don’t get into too much of the story.

You become a fan then and you just sit back and watch it as a fan, but you don’t watch it in anyway to try to comprehend a larger whole. I’m going to get it the same way you get it week to week. I read the whole script, I have no idea how this will look until I watch it on TV. Then I see the real brilliance. That last leg, with the lighting design and set design, the camera people, the actors just bringing that stuff alive takes it to a whole dimension I can’t even imagine. That’s my approach. I don’t know if everyone does that.

You mentioned watching the show as a fan. While The Wire is critically acclaimed, it’s had trouble connecting with a larger audience. A lot of that probably is the season-long story arcs and the complexity of the show. Do you worry about that kind of thing?

This show would work well up to the mid-20th century, the whole serial thing. It’s a very old-fashioned form. We’re in this world where we have the masses’ attention. It’s a show ahead of it’s time and way behind it’s time. People don’t read anymore – they don’t read newspapers, they don’t read books. They might listen to an audio book in the car, but it’s abridged. The show goes against the direction that popular culture is moving in. But, there’s this irresistible thing with these pockets of people who still recall what it’s like to sit around the fire and tell stories. A good story will grip you.

Those people who find themselves devoted to this show are romantics in a way. They want to be taken into a world and immersed. It’s kind of like 1,001 Nights or Aladdin stories, the epics. It’s The Odyssey. In a sense, Jimmy McNulty is Homer. But, it’s not something that is ever going to be popular in America again. This would never work on network and it barely works on cable. But, I think that those people who show up to it – and I don’t count those numbers on Sunday night. I would spread our numbers over the whole week, all the repeats and all the different ways you can watch the show. At the end of the week, we might reach seven, maybe 10 million people. Those 10 million people are invariably pacesetters in their worlds. They are people who have such a sharp sense of opinion and vision. They make changes in their world. It’s a real cutting edge group. That’s where we’re ahead of our time.

But, by and large, who reads the Metro section of the newspaper? The Wire is just the Metro section of your newspaper fleshed out. Most people toss that away. We read the celebrity pages and barely read editorials. It’s a sign of our times that we’re not plugged in. I’ve got to at once applaud HBO for putting it on and grudgingly re-upping us year after year. And now we get our five. We get the five that we really wanted, David gets to tell the story out his way and then it’s retired. It’s going to be taught in schools and it’s going to go to whole other formats that no other kind of television has ever gone to because people are going to discover it later on. Thank God we have DVDs because people can go back and catch up with it. That’s where this thing is going to live on and on and on. I really see it as like our Illiad and our Odyssey.

Because you’re originally from Washington, D.C., what is it like filming The Wire so close to where you grew up? Does it mean more to you working so close to home?

It definitely does. D.C. and Baltimore are like mad cousins. There’s sort of a perverted kind of pride that we take in the quality of our gangsterism. Anacostia and Northeast versus various parts of Baltimore. But it’s all the same. This show could never be done on the west coast. Not in a thousand years. We’ve got projects, we’ve got ghettos that are common with industrial cities that are deteriorating and you have the whole phenomenon of professional classes moving out of the city, leaving it for black and immigrant people. Even though they are starting to return now, by and large, Baltimore and Washington share that kind of fate. Washington was always a tale of two cities and Baltimore is pretty much the same. I can see parallels.

Then we had a guy named George Pelecanos who was a motherfucker of a writer. One of the greats and one of the great human beings. He really brought it down. George had the smell of the language on the page. When George wrote a script, you knew this was George. I don’t know how this little Greek guy came to know the streets like that, but he wrote instinct. When you read his scripts, you tapped into the instinct of your character. And that’s what people were picking up on The Wire – those looks and little things that clue you in by just a look or a gesture. That’s the stuff that George would suggest and I loved him for it. Ed gives you the whole bed to lay in and it’s a passionate place. He writes with that kind of passion. Richard Price, he’s a cerebral cat, he writes the big speeches. He’s the progressive lefty who makes you get on that soapbox. He was the one who wrote the paper bag speech in the Hamsterdam year. Dennis Lehane taps just that crumbling misery at the end, that pain and that irrational violence that folks have to live with. How they all came to know this about Baltimore, I really don’t know. But they get it on the page. And then David does his magic on it.

How accurate do you feel the show portrays Baltimore?

Somewhere between 95 and 100 percent. In terms of the streets, I would say it’s really like that. Bill Zorzi, who is a political ace, knows that world inside and out. I really don’t know that world the same way, but I would think that Zorzi is pretty much going to be someplace in the same range – 85 to 100 percent. Our guys walk with an integrity, it’s almost like a journalist’s integrity, and they bring that to the scripts. I pick up those scripts and I just feel like there’s no bullshit in there.

What has the response been like from Baltimore police officers?

They love it. I got in a little fender bender over in Baltimore. A kid ran into the back of my car and he wouldn’t get out. All of the sudden, this plain clothes car pulls up and these two white guys get out – I was just wearing sweat pants and stuff. “What’s the problem here?” One guy turns to the other, “Oh, it’s the major. Major, everything all right?” This kid is thinking, “Did I hit a police officer?” They are giving me their card and said, “Anything you need, give me a call.” I’ve never been a cop guy, but they really took us to their bosom and they believe in what we’re doing and they really admire the journey of Bunny.

In fact, the guy who played my lieutenant is an actual police officer in Baltimore. Everyday, I’d say, “Am I on mark?” And he’d say, “You’re on mark, man. You’re my major.” It’s really sound. The fuckups are the fuckups the police encounter everyday. They were right with it.

You have a starring role in the film Freedom Writers with Hillary Swank and Patrick Dempsey, which will be released next January. What can you tell us about that film?

That’s another inspiring story. A bunch of kids who were counted out in the Long Beach schools and this nice little white preppy woman from the suburbs comes in to try to be a teacher. She winds up, against all odds, making these some of the most outstanding writers in the country. They go on to win a Pulitzer Prize for a book they wrote. These were kids that couldn’t read when she met them, so it’s a really inspiring story. Hillary is great in it. I play the superintendent of schools, so I’m looking forward to seeing that.

What do you do to unwind? What kind of hobbies do you have?

I’m deep into music. I play a lot of Moroccan music. I play an instrument called the sintir and harmonium and drums. A lot of my friends are musicians and we spend a lot of time hanging and cooking food. I do a lot of traveling, on my own. I just like to get lost in places. I’m lucky enough, thank God, that I can’t do it a lot, but I can do it. And then I have a lot of great friends that I really, really dig. And, I’ve always loved movies. They make it hard for you to love movies these days, but I still love them.

What would you be doing for a living if you never got into acting?

There’s a good chance I would still be working in the arts. I’d probably weigh about 300 pounds in Washington, just looking at arts grants and shit and having panel meetings. Either that or sitting in a fleabag hotel with a needle in my arm.

Tell us something most people don’t know about you. Actually, that might have been it.

(Laughs.) That might have been it. I’ve got to say it like this – put my hands together when I say it – my life has been really a blessing. If I wasn’t doing this, I’d be doing something that would equally be as stimulating.

We’ve got one last thing for you here. We are going to do a word association.

What is this? Are we in the actor’s studio?

We’ll just throw out a name and tell us the first thing that comes to your mind.

Baltimore.

Candied yams.

David Simon.

The Chief.

Bunny Colvin.

My salvation.

The future.

Exciting.

Interview by Joel Murphy, September 2006. The Wire is on Sunday nights on HBO and replays throughout the week.

Similar Posts:

• Murphy’s Law – Perhaps they can offer a study-abroad program in Hamsterdam
• One on One with Delaney Williams
• One on One with Lance Reddick
• One on One with Hassan Johnson
• One on One with Michael Kostroff