It’s been an interesting ride for Cedric Daniel on The Wire. He started out as a lieutenant in charge of a specialized police detail targeting high-end drug cases, and over the span of five seasons ultimately became the police commissioner, only to relinquish the post after the mayor went back on his promise to end the stat games and corruption that plagued the police department. In the final episode, we see Daniels stick to his guns, and walk away from the police force, turning his attention to a life as a criminal attorney.

Playing Daniels on The Wire is Lance Reddick, an accomplished actor and musician who has already moved on to a reoccurring role on another hit show, Lost, and a series of Cadillac commercials. We recently had the chance to talk to Reddick about his mysterious new character on Lost, Cedric Daniels’ overabundance of shirtless scenes and the Dickensian aspect of The Wire.

We first had the chance to talk with you back in October of 2005. Since that time it seems you’re finally getting the credit you deserve. Season four and five have spotlighted Cedric Daniels quite a bit as he was handpicked to be the new commissioner. What has it been like for you to watch your character progress and to be spotlighted with some additional camera time?

It’s funny you say that because it doesn’t feel to me like it’s been more camera time. And also, to be honest, except for the last episode, I haven’t seen any of the fifth season.

Have you just not been able to catch it?

That’s been part of it. The truth is, I don’t watch much television. For example, I didn’t watch the first two seasons until April of 2006. I watched them straight on DVD. And then I did the same thing with seasons three and four in January of this year.

Well, perhaps you haven’t actually had more camera time, but it certainly seems like Daniels has been mentioned quite a bit more often in the final two seasons and has become more of a focus of the show after being groomed to be the police commissioner.

It could be. See, the thing that’s kind of funny about the show is that it seems that the cast gets bigger every season if that’s at all possible, and the stories get even more complex every season. And, if I would speak to other members of the cast, it’s pretty universal that they would say after the first season, they would say that they felt like they weren’t working much. Except maybe Dominic West this last season.

Having been a part of The Wire from the very beginning, what was it like to wrap filming on the final season?

It’s interesting, other than The Wire, I haven’t worked very much until season five and then it just seemed like season five was very busy. Once again, I felt like I really didn’t have much to do until the last few episodes. The thing that I remember most is that my last day of shooting was the night that we wrapped for the entire series. And my attitude was kind of like I’m ready to do something else; I’m ready for this to be over. And, that moment, I finished my last shot and I was ready to just sneak out and David Simon kind of made a thing about it - it’s not like I was unique, everyone who wrapped for the series, they stopped and said goodbye. And I lost it. I cried like a baby.

It’s funny because one of the things I said, I heard recently in Atlantic Monthly that a journalist said something very similar, I had never been much of a literary person. Most of my interests in reading had been in spirituality and psychology and some philosophy. So mainly from the urges of my daughter who’s just a voracious reader, I decided it was time for me to start reading more literature. So I had been reading Dickens. And I was really struck by how Dickensian The Wire is because I read three novels back to back.

It’s interesting because David Simon seems to shy away from that comparison. You said you haven’t watched the final season yet, but in the newspaper storyline, the two unscrupulous senior editors often mention capturing the “Dickensian aspect” of a story. It seems like David Simon views that term with contempt.

It could be that people bandied it about. I said it sort of independent of realizing how much it would be evoked. (Laughs.) It could just be that he doesn’t like being constantly compared to someone else.

It seems his preferred metaphor for the show is that it’s a Greek tragedy.

When he talks about his work, he doesn’t say things lightly. So if he made the reference to Greek tragedy, I’m sure that’s how he thinks of it.

His way of explaining it was that it was a Greek tragedy and the institutions are the gods controlling the fate of the characters. The citizens of Baltimore are at the mercy of these gods - the government, the police department, the drug game.

Wow, I get that.

Okay, be honest - did you add a clause to your contract stating that you must be shirtless several times a season or was that the writers’ idea?

(Laughs.) That’s mostly the third season and, it’s funny because they asked me to do it this season and I didn’t want to do it. I ended up being in a wifebeater. What happened was the last episode of the second season, the director asked me if I minded having my shirt off when I came out to answer the phone. And then, it was one of those things where - first of all, this is embarrassing to say - a lot of the female crew kept wanting to see me with my shirt off after that. I’m assuming because they asked me whenever that would come up with me and Pearlman in the third season, I don’t know how much of it’s because fans wrote in or what it was. To be honest, I don’t know if I had my shirt off anymore than Dominic West did, especially first season.

That was just a throw-away question, but we do appreciate the amount of thought you are putting into it.

(Laughs.)

What made you decide to go wifebeater in this season? What was the change?

It was only one scene. Honestly, it was a scene where we were at home and she’s at the table working and I’m looking at the news and I was in my pajama bottoms and it just felt gratuitous to me. It’s different when I’m in bed, but I felt like it was an excuse to have a man’s shirt off and I just didn’t want to do it.

What are some of your favorite moments from the show?

I think the most exciting season for me was the first. Number one, because it was new, but also because I just knew I was part of something really special and I had so much to do. It’s the only season that I was just completely exhausted by the end of it. I felt like the only person in that season that had more to do than me was Dominic, and maybe Larry Gilliard.

The scenes that I’ve done that comes to my mind is the first season when I have the talk with Detective Polk, he’s one of the alcoholics. So much of my character was about going back and forth between a party-line hard ass and jumping in with McNulty and being a rebel. That was one of the few scenes where I felt like it was all about my relationship with one of the men and my relationship to him as a leader and as human being; I cared about him as a person. A sense of responsibility. Honestly, I thought it was beautiful. It was a great scene to play and a beautiful opportunity. I felt like in some ways that said more about who the guy was than anything else.

In season four, Carcetti declares that he wants no more “stat games” in his new administration. But in the series finale, we see his subordinates going into Daniels’ office and demanding just that, leading to Daniels resigning as police commissioner and ultimately becoming a defense attorney. It may not be the perfect ending, but are you satisfied with where David Simon left your character or would you have liked to see things end differently for Daniels?

Well, as far as the way my character ended up, I am completely satisfied. In his own way, I think that Daniels was just as much of a maverick, just as intractable as McNulty and Freeman, but from the standpoint of leadership. The only thing that I missed was closure on my relationship with Freeman. But that’s from a personal standpoint. Objectively though, I can’t say that it would have added anything to the story.

What do you think the legacy of The Wire will be?

Wow, at least in the genre of crime drama and maybe just in drama in general, it’s got so many legacies because there’s never been anything like it. It may be the first hit dramatic series with a predominantly African American cast, that’s one. Number two, possibly the finest written and acting ensemble in the history of television. Once again, I’m on it, so I’m biased, but that is an honest assessment.

I was thinking about it the other day, and I was thinking about how when we advance in technology, different mediums become new places to create art. At first, it starts as kind of a pop culture thing and then eventually it really starts to evolve into another art form. We’ve moved from the epic poem to the play to the novel to film. I feel like in television, more than anything else I feel like its legacy is going to be, dramatic television as true art and as true social commentary with all the complexity and significance that entails. In some ways, I feel like it’s opening the door for people to say it’s okay to be as complex and real and as artful as you can be and that there’s a market for it.

Do you think at some point people will go back and discover this show on DVD years from now?

To be honest, it’s happening now. Because of the timing of everything with the strike and HBO’s well drying up a little bit from that period when they had so many hits, Six Feet Under and The Sopranos and Sex and the City and even though The Wire didn’t have the industry acclaim that the other shows had, it had as much, if not more, critical acclaim. So with those shows gone, on top of the strike happening and all of these other shows shutting down, The Wire is the only show during the strike that aired its entire season. And HBO threw more weight behind it than it had since the first season. So, for the first time, everybody in Hollywood is talking about it.

I called Amy Ryan to congratulate her on her Oscar nomination about a month ago and I got a message from her just last weekend saying that when she was going around to all of her Oscar parties, everybody was saying how much they loved her work on The Wire. So finally, everybody’s talking about it.

And I was talking to my ex-wife the other day and she was saying that all of her friends, everybody’s talking about it now. Everybody’s running out and getting all four seasons.

It’s funny that people are finally realizing how great the show is now that it’s over, which is probably actually fitting for The Wire.

It kind of is.

Dominic West, Wendell Pierce and Sonja Sohn are reportedly trying to convince David Simon to do a Wire movie. Is this something you would like to see happen and would be on board with? And if so, do you think it would be easier to pick up where things left off with season five or to do a prequel?

As far as a movie goes, my understanding from part of an interview that Dominic West did recently, is that David’s take on it is that he’d probably be inclined to do a prequel, if anything at all. For my part, I’m ready to move on from Daniels. I don’t want the show to be like one of those great athletes that just didn’t know when to quit. I think it was a fantastic ending to probably the greatest crime drama (if not the greatest drama) in the history of television. I’m not saying I would say no out of hand if it was offered to me, but at this point, I’m skeptical.

In addition to The Wire, you play the creepy Matthew Abaddon on Lost. How did you land that role and have they given you any information about your character beyond what has been seen on screen?

To be perfectly frank, he didn’t give me much explanation. So I don’t even know who the guy is yet. I only did the first two episodes of the season and right now it looks like I’ll be shooting one episode and I don’t know how many more at the beginning of April.

How do you play a character if you have no idea who he is?

I won’t say I have no idea. Once again, they’re even more secretive than The Wire. Like, for example, your script has your name encoded across every single page, so if you lose your script it’s a big deal. But, I’m just trying to think of how much I can say - the thing that he said was think of him as Darth Vader. (Laughs.) He’s probably not the top guy in whatever organization he’s in.

You mentioned you don’t watch much television. Were you a fan of Lost before becoming a part of the show?

No, I was cast and I went back and did homework. I got the first two seasons and watched them on DVD and then, of course, I got hooked.

We have a theory that you will be the person in the casket that Jack visits at the end of the last season. Do you care to comment on this theory?

See, I’m thinking it’s Ben.

Ben seems too obvious. We think the writers will swerve everyone and it will end up being you, even though your character was introduced after the episode featuring the casket.

I don’t know. You may find out not much later than I do. (Laughs.)

So you have no clue how much you will be in the show?

I don’t know how much I’ll be in it. The other thing that complicates it a little bit is that now I’m on this new show called Fringe, assuming that that goes (and that is an assumption at this point), I’ll be doing double duty for a little bit. The good thing is that it’s also J.J. Abrams.

What can you tell us about Fringe?

It’s an “X-Filesy” kind of show. But it’s going to be more action-oriented. And it’s a bigger cast, so a lot more twists and turns. In that regard, it will be a lot like Lost. Fringe is the name of this special governmental investigative team that investigates terrorists/paranormal activities. And I’m the head of the unit.

So you are the Daniels of the Fringe unit?

Yeah, well, kind of. Part of me, when I read the script, I thought, “If there’s a role for me, then that’s the role,” because it’s a cool role. He’s a lot more of a hard ass than Daniels is, believe it or not. As a personality, he’s more like Rawls. He’s a real ass. But he’s also one of the good guys. I think a lot like Lost, character will seem like they’re one thing, then they’ll turn out to be something else. And they will turn out to be something else again. I can already see it in the pilot. And it’s a two hour pilot.

If it does get made, will this show going to be on ABC?

No, this is Fox. Warner Bros. is producing it and it’s going to be on Fox.

But you still aren’t sure if it’s a go yet?

Well, only because that’s the way all pilots are. So until they give the official go, you can’t really say. It’s one of those things where you never know until the contract is signed or until you get the official word. So officially it’s not cool for me to say we are going to make this series. But it’s looking really good. I feel like we’d have to really mess it up to not get picked up.

What else does the future hold for you? We know you have some films coming out soon as well.

Yeah, I have a film called Tennessee, which actually shot a year ago in New Mexico. It was produced by Lee Daniels, who did Monster’s Ball and The Woodsman.

What’s your role in that film?

I play a state trooper. (Laughs.) It’s a drama. The theme of the film is domestic violence and abuse. And then people, whether it’s children or spouses, coming to terms with that.

You have another film on the horizon called The Way of War. What is that about?

It’s a political thriller. It’s kind of like Syrianna meets The Bourne Identity. It’s about this special forces operative over in the middle east who finds out that he’s been a pawn. It’s starring Cuba Gooding Jr.

How is the music career going? Are you still writing and recording music?

It’s funny, so much else had been happening that I kind of put that aside for a moment. But I’m just in the process of finishing redoing my website. I just got a MySpace page done for the first time, believe it or not. And the music is now online, it should be available for sale, at least for download, in a couple of weeks.

Interviewed by Joel Murphy, March 2008. For more information on Lance Reddick, visit his official website.

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Change is the only constant on the streets. Just as the good folks of inner-city Baltimore got used to Avon Barksdale calling the shots, he was sent to jail and a soulless monster named Marlo Stanfield was suddenly the most powerful drug dealer on HBO’s hit series, The Wire.

A cold-blooded killer like Stanfield has no shortage of enemies. That’s why a right-hand man like Chris Partlow is vital to protect Marlo against rivals. Partlow is a loyal assassin who does whatever it takes to guard Stanfield without ever asking why. We recently had a chance to sit down with Gbenga Akinnagbe, the talented actor who plays Partlow, to talk about life on The Wire, working with Philip Seymour Hoffman and his amateur wrestling background.

You are originally from the Washington, DC area. Where do you call home now?

New York, I’ve been here for it feels like a long time. I’m not sure exactly how many years I’ve been here. All the years blend together. I’ve been here for I think four or five years and I spend most of my time here. But I still love the DC area. Whenever I go back, I’m very appreciative of the area. But I think New York is my spot.

Did you grow up in DC?

I grew up in Montgomery County. I was born in DC. And my whole family’s from Nigeria.

How did you get into acting? How old were you when you started and how did you decide this is what you wanted to do for a living?

I started when I was 21. I used to work for the federal government and I didn’t know anything about acting, I wasn’t even all that interested in it. Then, I don’t know, I just got curious about it and I researched it, I bought some books. I went online to see what actors do. And then I started going on auditions. Even when I started going on the auditions, I wasn’t really trying to pursue it. I got cast at the Shakespeare Theatre in DC and I had to decide whether I was going to leave my good government job or stay. And I decided to leave and I’ve been acting since.

Once you made the decision, was it pretty easy to get cast or did you have a tough time getting roles?

The truth of the matter is I was really ignorant. I didn’t know it was supposed to be hard, so I just continued to get work. I didn’t know that you needed an agent or a manager, so I got work by myself. I would go to auditions. I would get people to help me, my friends, and while I was working in these plays, these professional actors would help me with other auditions. Money was tight, but I always ate. I’m not going to say it was easy, but I worked consistently.

Your first credited film role was in They’re Made Out of Meat, a short film starring Tom Noonan. The name was too great not to bring it up. What can you tell us about the film?

It was a student film that got some money and some backing and became a small indie - a 10-minute film. Yeah, that’s the first thing I did. I found that, I think, in Backstage. It’s when I was going out there and I still didn’t have representation, so I would find work wherever I could find it. I went in, I think it was the New York Film Academy, and auditioned for this Irish director, Stephen was his name, and he did the film. And in the end product, they cut out most of my stuff.

What was the film about?

It’s based off of a short science fiction story. They wrote this 10-minute film about it. These two detectives - they appear to be detectives, but you’re never quite sure - they meet in a diner and start talking about what they’re discovering. You realize they’re talking about people, human beings, and how they are appalled and amazed to find out that human beings are made out of meat - that they talk with the meat, flapping meat, and that they perspire and so on. You see everyone in the diner and so on. And that’s pretty much it. (Laughs.) It’s a 10-minute film.

Of course, you play Chris Partlow on the best show on television today, The Wire. How did you end up getting cast on the show and how was the character described to you initially?

I moved from Maryland at the time. I was in Jersey. And I would get calls from casting directors in the DC/Maryland area sometimes and they brought me down to audition for the Marlo Stanfield role. I auditioned for different roles a couple times. I was an extra on the show, I was actually even a background extra in the pilot episode. It was a long time ago. Then, after I auditioned for Marlo, they offered me Slim Charles, which I ended up taking. But then when it got closer to the film date, filming that episode conflicted with something else I was doing and I was trying to decide what I should do. And I ended up turning that role down and later on, I was kicking myself, wondering if I should have turned that down. Then the summer came and they called me up and said, “The writers and producers really like you and they have a larger role. They want to know if you’ll take it.” I said yes, and it was Chris.

That definitely worked out that you passed on Slim Charles then.

Oh absolutely. Everything happens for a reason and I was very fortunate.

What did they tell you about Chris originally? It’s an interesting character, he doesn’t give much of himself away, but the show continues to give small glimpses into another side of him besides his role as Marlo’s muscle. His frustration over being separated from his family while being on the lamb, his understanding of Michael’s problem with the abusive stepfather in season four and the strain on his relationship with Marlo this season all seem to hint that there is more to Chris than meets the eye. Was the character ever laid out for you or do you just get these little pieces from the script?

It’s a combination of both. The writing is really good, so as an actor you try to extract as much as you can from the writing. And you get hired because of your interpretation and what they think you can do with it, so they have that trust in your collaboration with it. So I’d get the script and I remember them telling me very little about the script. I remember asking them, “Give me more, give me more” because I wanted to just soak it all up and work with it and so on.

And he told me, “You were hired because of what you can do with it and now you take it and do what you can do with it.” So from the writing of the scripts and what they put into it, what came out was my interpretation.

So how do you see the character? What is your interpretation?

I think Chris is - we all have our dark side, but Chris is a dark side exaggerated and manifested. Basically, he’s a sociopath, but I don’t want to just categorize him as that, although it’s hard not to categorize someone with the label sociopath. He’s very indifferent. He could just as easily take your hand as kill you. Whereas Snoop is a psychopath, she’s got a thrill for this, she really enjoys it and so on, Chris cares for very few things in life and very few people. Among them are Marlo and Snoop, his family and so on. He’s got extreme tunnel vision. If there’s something on his plate, that’s what happens. That’s what’s being taken care of. Which makes him very good at what he does, but it doesn’t leave room for anything else in life, which he’s fine with.

Do you get along well offscreen with Felicia Pearson and Jamie Hector?

I hate them. (Laughs.) No, no, we get along great. I hang out with them. I’m doing a play in New York, Jamie, who plays Marlo, is coming out to check out the play. We’re very supportive of one another and we have a lot of fun together. It’s a good cast, on and off screen. We hang out when we can. It’s a very large cast, so we don’t get that much of an opportunity. But those of us who live in New York, we make efforts to support each other’s work and hang out, which is great.

What was it like on set with so many characters being killed of this season? Were actors paranoid about having their characters killed off?

Ha! Every season of The Wire there’s a paranoia because after Stringer Bell died, pretty much anyone can go. Stringer was a very popular character, Idris is a great actor, and if he could get killed off, then anybody could, which is great because it keeps a liveliness to the show. It keeps you very aware and in the present time both on and off set.

And also, there’s a reality to that. If you’re on the streets, it’s not like just because you’re popular, that doesn’t mean you are going to last. Only in television-land does that happen.

And if you’re doing dirt on many different sides, you’re shortening your lifespan on the street anyway. So yeah, we all felt that a stray bullet can come down any one of those alleys and take any one of us out.

Are you happy to have made it this far? Obviously, you are in jail, but it could be worse, right?

Yeah, it could be worse. But The Wire’s the type of show that if you have a great death, a glorious death, that can be even better than living sometimes.

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When Maury Levy had Omar Little on the stand in court, he tried to discredit the witness by saying that Omar profited from the drug trade, making a living off of the suffering of others. Without missing a beat, Omar responded, “Just like you man. I got the shotgun, you got the briefcase.”

It’s ironic that on The Wire, a show focusing on the drug trade in Baltimore, one of the most evil characters is the lawyer who represents the street thugs. But Maury Levy, played brilliantly by Michael Kostroff, is a smarmy, unapologetic villain who fans love to hate. We recently talked to Kostroff about his character, the show and why fans won’t let him pick out a tomato in peace.

Where are you originally from and where do you call home now?

I’m originally from New York City. I’ve been living in Las Angeles for 18 years, so naturally I call New York City home.

How did you get into acting? How old were you when you started and how did you decide this is what you wanted to do for a living?

I believe acting is a calling. Practically out of the womb I was making up shows, talking to imaginary characters or becoming characters. It’s sort of been a lifelong thing. I can’t remember a time where I didn’t know I was going to be an actor.

It’s always hard to answer the “big break” question because there wasn’t one. It was sort of a series of little breaks followed by long periods of unemployment and at a certain point I looked around and I was making a living as an actor.

You have appeared in guest spots on a variety of television shows. What has it been like being a journeyman actor? Is it tough to constantly go onto new sets to play these parts or do you enjoy the variety in the work?

I think one of my favorite things about being an actor is the variety. Variety of roles, variety of settings, going from theatre to TV; it’s really one of my favorite things. In fact, if I’m ever in a play where I can play like 10 or 12 roles as I did in The Producers, that’s Heaven for me because I really like the diversity.

And, I’ve always had a very kind of blue collar philosophy about my acting career. I love the whole journeyman aspect. I always think of it as wheeling my little peddler’s cart through the village, ringing the bell, seeing if anyone needs an actor.

Which of those experiences stand out to you? Was there a particular show you really enjoyed working on?

Well, I think I have a bad reputation for closing shows. I did Studio 60 and then that went off the air. I did The Wedding Bells and that went off the air.

You know, it’s really hard to top The Wire, I have to tell you. That show has been such a joy for me that everything else pales by comparison. So, of my TV work, I can’t off the top of my head think of anything that leaps out.

I had a great time on The Geena Davis Show. I played the school principal who was very nervous around Geena. The character had a big crush on her and would always hit on her whenever she came to visit her kids’ school, so that was kind of a fun part.

When did you first start to realize that The Wire might be something special?
You play Maurice Levy on the best show on television today, The Wire. What attracted you to the show and how was the character described to you initially?

To the first question, it always makes me laugh when actors get asked in interviews, “What drew you to the project?” and nobody tells the truth. The truth is, we like work. (Laughs.) So, you know, a job as an actor is never a bad offer.

We no longer have to keep this a secret - my sister is the executive producer. It was sort of an unusual journey for me getting the role. She called to ask if I wanted to audition for a different role, Barlow, and I didn’t get the part. She said, “The bad news is that you didn’t get the part, but the good news is David Simon would like you to come read for Levy.”

And, I went and auditioned and apparently he looked at the tape and said, “Why are we looking at this? That’s the guy.” So that was the extent of it.

I don’t know that it was ever described to me. With David Simon’s writing, you take the pages and unfold the origami that’s in the wording. You find the clues. And it’s just so brilliantly written that, if you do your homework, you figure out exactly what’s happening in the scene.

I don’t think I really got it until I saw it on television. I thought it was good and I loved the role because it was so different for me, but until I tuned in, I didn’t really get what a great show it was. Then I became as addicted as any fan and I tried to forget what we filmed so I could be surprised every week.

Most of the characters on The Wire operate in shades of gray, but Maury Levy doesn’t really seem to have any redeeming qualities. He’s one of the least likeable characters on the show.

You’ve really hit the nail on the head. That’s an excellent observation. In fact, one of my favorite things about The Wire is the complexities of the characters. You have Wee-Bey, the toughest shooter in the gang, who has to make sure his tropical fish are taken care of when he goes out of town to kill somebody.

And Levy’s one of the few characters whose good side has never been shown. It’s interesting. I have to tell you, at our premiere in Baltimore, we came outside and there was a protest. There were folks protesting the image of black people on the show. And I thought, “Have you taken a look at the portrayal of Jews on the show?” (Laughs.)

Black characters have been portrayed at all ends of the spectrum. I think that’s really a flawed objection because we have wonderful, noble black characters on the show. But I think I’m the entire representation of Jews on the show. (Laughs.) Not so good.

I don’t know exactly why David Simon did that, but I’m glad he never showed the good side of Levy because it’s been much to fun to play an absolute son of a bitch.

Do you think there is a good side to Levy? Do you attempt to round out the character in your head?

Well, I had to find a reason why he did it because you don’t ever want to say, “He’s evil, so he likes doing bad things.” And I decided that for Levy, it was very much about the chess game and he was very proud of being able to win unwinnable cases and make thugs look like people with great potential in society. So, for him, it was sort of the sense of “Aha! See what I did? You didn’t think I could do that. Pretty good, huh?” I think that’s sort of what drives him.

He definitely seems to have a smug satisfaction whenever he wins a case. It’s odd too because as smarmy as the character is, he’s definitely one of those guys you love to hate.

I get that a lot. People like watching Levy and they always smile when they tell me how much they hate me.

I was in the grocery store, picking out tomatoes like you do and, I have to say, I don’t walk around with a constant awareness of the fact that I’m on television. So, I’m buying tomatoes and behind me I hear, “You motherfucking son of a bitch.”

I turned around and I thought, “Did this guy want these particular tomatoes?” And I noticed that he was smiling from ear to ear. It took me a second, then I went, “Oh, you watch The Wire.”

And with a big grin he went, “Yeah, you’re an asshole.” (Laughs.)

There is something likeable about him. And yeah, you’re right, he is very pleased with himself when he has outwitted his opponents. That’s kind of what it’s about. And I think that’s why lawyers admire him. Not because they admire his ethics, but because they do admire his technique.

How often do you get recognized? Does it happen quite a bit?

Fairly frequently, more so now that our fifth season is underway. We have hardcore Wire fans everywhere. I think more often they look at me and they feel like they know me but they can’t quite place me because I’m so different from Levy in real life. I’m a total goofball, I’m just a geek and I’m usually smiling when they meet me and they just can’t put that together.

Obviously you can’t give away anything substantial, but can you give us any indication what is in store for Levy for the rest of season five?

I can tell you that it’s just as ever, more slime, more duplicity, more unscrupulous tactics. As you know, we are all sworn to secrecy, we all sign an agreement saying we won’t say any plotline. I’ve already disappointed those that thought I might end up a minister by the end of the season. That’s not going to happen.

It really kills me that I can’t talk about this season because it’s really, really good. It’s got shocks in it. It will not disappoint and we will not have a Sopranos ending, I can promise you that.

What are some of your favorite moments from the show?

It’s so many little moments that I love. I share this in common with David Simon, he likes the funny moments. I love the “fuck” scene, when the whole dialogue in the scene is fuck. One of my favorite things was when they were trying to use Robert’s Rules of Order for the co-op meeting among the gang members and somebody says something and somebody else says, “Sit down motherfucker, the chair ain’t recognize you yet.”

I just love the richness and the diversity of the characters and how they completely manage to surprise us over and over again. It is hard to pick out a moment, I have to say.

I think most fans would say their favorite Levy moment is when I get knocked down by Omar in the courtroom and kind of exposed as a fraud. That’s a fairly brilliant moment, I think. And I loved working with Michael K. Williams.

Because there are so many characters on the show, many of the actors have never met. I mostly work with certain characters. So, at the premiere this year, I was able to shake hands with Rawls and Carcetti and a bunch of people I’ve never met and tell them I like their work.

So the day that I went to work with Michael K. Williams, I was scared because he’s such a badass on the show. I was nervous to meet him. I came over, very shyly put out my hand and he looked at me and said, “I was afraid to meet you.” Then we ended up having a good old time. He’s just the sweetest man in the world.

The fact that he’s been overlooked in the Emmy nominations is appalling to me. He and Andre Royo have put in just perfect performances year after year, moving and complex, and I don’t understand why they haven’t been nominated.

Having been a part of the show for such a long time, what was it like when the final season wrapped and how do you feel now that the filming of the show is complete?

It’s strange. There’s a really good feeling in moving on. I feel like we made great television and there’s really kind of a proud feeling in putting a hat on it. And at the same time, I don’t want to be overly dramatic, but when I rapped my last scene, I thought, “Maury Levy’s gone. That’s it. There’s no more Maury Levy.” And I thought, “I’m going to miss that son of a bitch. God help me, I can’t believe it but I’m going to miss it.”

So there’s a little sense of loss, but I think much stronger than any sense of loss is the sense of real satisfaction and pride. You know, Maury was only supposed to be on two episodes and they just kept writing me in and I was so flattered by that. Just to be in the company of those actors and for David Simon to want the character to continue is really an honor.

Overall, the feeling is just a really good feeling and I’m excited to move on. In fact, I wanted my next job to be as different as possible from The Wire and I just shot a pilot for Disney just before Thanksgiving. Not only is it a comedy, but it’s a kid’s comedy and I’m the only grownup on it and I play a total wimp. So it’s really nice to have the other end of the spectrum for a change.

What do you do to unwind? What kind of hobbies do you have?

I’m addicted to online Scrabble. I waste way too much time. And I’ll now say what I shouldn’t, I watch horrible reality TV shows. I’m a big American Idol junkie and Top Chef, Project Runway, all that crap that we’re not supposed to watch because it puts actors out of work.

What would you be doing for a living if you never got into acting?

Wow, that’s a great question. It’s a hard question. I’ve always loved theatrical set design, so I guess that would still be in the arts. I think I might have been a therapist. I’m really interested in what makes people tick. I think that drives me as an actor as well. I think I could have very happily become a therapist.

Tell us something most people don’t know about you.

Most people don’t know that not only was I raised on R&B music, but I actually sing that stuff. There are a handful of people who will sometimes call on me to do backup and I’m always the only white guy. I can dance a little too, but I think the main thing that surprises people is that I riff.

Interviewed by Joel Murphy, February 2008. The fifth and final season of The Wire airs Sunday nights on HBO.

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From a soldier in Avon Barksdale’s army to concerned father who wants a better life for his son, we’ve seen several different sides of Roland “Wee-Bey” Brice. With season five underway, we caught up with Hassan Johnson, who plays Wee-Bey on The Wire, to talk about working on the critically-acclaimed show, his longtime friendship with castmate Method Man and Wee-Bey’s love of fish.

Where are you originally from and where do you call home now?

Basically, I’m from Staten Island, New York - born in Brooklyn, raised in Staten Island, and I call in between time zones my home because I’m always between New York and LA. That’s sort of what turned into my lifestyle for the last four years.

How did you get into acting? How old were you when you started and how did you decide this is what you wanted to do for a living?

I’ve always been interested in being on television, is what I told myself. Whether it was journalism being a news reporter or whether it was an actor, anything that could get me on TV, that’s what I wanted to do was be on television. Never really asked myself what I wanted to do on television and the acting came along when I was in high school and a friend of mine’s girlfriend basically called my bluff and challenged me to go to an open audition, which was Clockers, a Spike Lee film.

You got a part in Clockers. So the first audition you went on, you got?

Yeah, I went to the open call, they liked me, they called me back for an audition - I had several callbacks thereafter, but basically from the open call to the end of the callbacks, I was in the movie, unbeknownst to me, but I had a feeling the whole time.

What was it like having your first role in a Spike Lee movie? Was it overwhelming for you?

Yeah, definitely. Being a high school student, at that time in my life I was playing football, I was really into the ball playing, that’s what I thought I would go to school to do. And when the acting came along, I took the opportunity, of course. It was my senior summer year and I was playing ball - I was supposed to be captain, but I didn’t make it to football camp. My relationship with my coach just kind of went up like whatever and I decided, “Yeah, I think this is what I’m going to do.” Didn’t pursue going to college, the ball playing, anything like that. I just got into acting full-fledged. So it was overwhelming at first just being on set with Spike Lee and all this other talent.

From there, have you had a tough time getting roles or has it been pretty easy for you?

It’s been tough and easy at the same time. When I first got my agent after doing Clockers, something my agent explained to me was, “Since you came up on such a high tier, a high level, it’s going to be hard to face rejection.” That was one jewel that anyone could have dropped on me because most kids do come into this business and if they come into a motion picture principal role right out the gate, it’s like everything’s supposed to be good and you’re a star overnight. I guess just knowing where I was from and just being practical and realistic, she decided to just be down to earth and give me the real and not even let me run off and think it’s going to be this fantasy world where I’m going to be a Hollywood star in the next five years. So it has been a battle that I’ve been able to balance out with some good, so I appreciate everything, all the experience, for sure.

You played Mark in the film Belly. What was it like being a part of that film and working with DMX, Nas and Method Man?

That was also a hell of an experience. I was excited for that because that was another film at the time that when Hype Williams was casting for it, he had an open audition. I told myself I wasn’t going to go to the open audition again - I’ve done that once, I need to take another route to get cast in the film. I ended up getting an audition and that just worked out because Method Man, being from Staten Island, put the word in for me definitely. I think Meth said something to the effect of, “Hype, I can’t be in this movie unless you cast Hass, that’s my brother.” Just being from Staten Island, at the time Wu-Tang having the force that they did in the industry, he definitely stepped up and spoke on my behalf as far as that. I think between that and Hype looking at my audition tape, they decided, “Yeah, this cat is what we need just to balance it out right.”

That was the first film, I don’t know if anyone thinks about it, that really started rappers in the leading role. I mean, all rappers and artists carried the film. You got Method Man, DMX, Nas, T-Boz. That’s pretty much what spawned that. I don’t know if Hype gets his credit or not.

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It’s so beautifully shot, too.

Right, it’s a masterpiece cinematic-wise. It is crazy. It’s like a two hour video.

Were you and Method Man really close before you did the movie?

Yeah, definitely, coming from Staten Island, Park Hill was the neighborhood. Definitely grew up with one another. Him and an older cousin of mine were real close friends. So the rapping always been in their blood and it was just a matter of time before he became a star anyway. Even from being in the neighborhood, he was a pretty popular, charismatic dude, so it was just a matter of time before he got the spotlight and ran with it. So yeah, Meth, we go way back; 80s babies like since I can remember.

And now you and Method Man are both on the best show on television today, The Wire. How did you end up getting cast as Roland “Wee-Bey” Brice and how was your character described to you initially?

Actually, it was funny, I didn’t really know what I was getting myself into because Wee-Bey’s character, along with the rest of them - Avon Barksdale, Stringer Bell - was a real character based on this true story.

So, what happened was, I auditioned for D’Angelo Barksdale, that was Avon Barksdale’s nephew, played by Larry Gilliard, Jr. I think it was the second callback, because I went in for one audition before 9-11 and the callback was during the aftermath of 9-11, once you were able to go back into Manhattan, because they didn’t have access to the city from like Brooklyn, Staten Island, Queens, anything like that.

So once that let up and we were able to go into the city, I had a callback and I was still reading for D’Angelo. What happened was, Clark Johnson leaned over to David Simon, or it was the other way around, and said, “Oh, this is Wee-Bey.” And whoever, whatever, that was, I didn’t know at the time. I just was like, “Whatever.” I left the audition and my agent said, “Yeah, they want to book you for this pilot as Wee-Bey.” I hadn’t even seen a script probably until two or three days before we were filming.

It’s been interesting to see your character develop. In season one, we saw you on the streets. In season two, we got to see Wee-Bey’s life in prison. And in season four, we got to see your character as a father. When did you start to get an idea of what the character was like and where he was headed?

What happened was, Wee-Bey definitely being the significant part of the story that he was, I started to get into it around the wardrobe fitting when I actually did get the script. So I drove down to Baltimore, picked the script up and I started reading it back in Staten Island.

Then I started to embody the character more where I was able to look and understand his role, his position - okay, Wee-Bey’s a soldier, he’s very loyal to Avon and the organization and basically he’s going to carry out his assignments to the fullest. That’s who Wee-Bey was, the cleanup guy. No joke, no mistake about it, he’s getting the job done. So I started to catch a whiff of that real fast.

Then, just filming the pilot also helps you capture and embody the essence of the character. So everyone’s breaking ice now - Wood Harris, Idris Elba, Andre Royo - everyone’s starting to break the ice of their character during the pilot because that was filmed in November. Then we got picked up and we started filming the rest of the episodes for the first season in February of ‘02. So, you know what I’m saying, we had a time to let it all sink in and figure out what kind of dynamics we were going to bring to the table now.

Did you know your character would end up in prison at the end of season one? Did David Simon give you any indication of your character’s story arc in advance or were you finding out week to week?

Yeah, week to week, we get the script, that’s definitely how I’d find out. But I wouldn’t say I was blind-sided. Some of what took place on the show with certain characters, people feel they were blind-sided by. But whatever, that’s what the show consisted of. We didn’t get the script for the next week’s episode in our hand until maybe the last day of filming the last episode.

So, when you wrapped on one episode, you went into your trailer and either there was a script waiting for you or there wasn’t. And, what happened was, you picked up the script and you found out if you was going to be offed or not because you would basically skim through. I knew everyone did the same thing - you go in your trailer, get your script, you run through it real fast to see what happens with your character and then you let out a big sigh of relief because you find out, “Okay, I’m going to be working again.” (Laughs.)

That’s really how it was, but I tell people the story all the time where we just really didn’t know what we were doing anyway, we didn’t know how good the show was going to be. We all came with our A game because there’s like 30 principal characters. So we all got speaking lines, so you had to be on point, but I don’t think we really knew what we were putting together until we actually sat down that first Sunday night and saw the premiere. Like, wow, “This is crazy. That’s us? We were doing this?” That’s how it was. Because we were just working like, “Okay, this is some Baltimore shit. What’s going on tonight? Who has to work tomorrow? Are we hanging out?” (Laughs.) That’s what was going on every day on the set. I think that set the tone for what you see now because there were no egos, nobody was trippin’, everyone got along, the chemistry was great.

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